--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process
* jds2001
cmpahar afk, back in 20'
bpeppleFESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, dgilmore, dwmw2, jwb, notting, nirik, kick_, jds2001, j-rod
Hi everybody; who's around?
* notting is here
Kick_ is here
j-rod just got here too
dwmw2_YOW here
dwmw2_YOWin body if not in mind
* bpepple waits another minute or so to see who else shows up.
* jds2001 around
bpeppleok, let's get started...
First off, welcome to the new members.
any questions before we start?
dwmw2_YOWdid the election results get announced?
jds2001i saw it on fedora-announce and planet
bpeppledwmw2_YOW: yeah, I sent an announcement to the announce-list and the planet.
* nirik is back now
bpeppledwmw2_YOW: http://bpepple.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/fesco-election-results-2/
dwmw2_YOWok. The election page, as of last night, was refusing to show the results until they'd been ratified (or something)
* f13 is here now
bpeppleyeah, I don't think G has opened that up yet.
j-rodyeah, 'embargoed pending announcement' is what they were telling me last I looked, then I found the stuff in bpepple's blog
j-rods'pose the embargo can be lifted now... :)
bpepplej-rod: yeah, I'll check with G about lifting it.
ok, let's get started...
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- Decide time for FESCo meetings -- all
bpeppleok, jds2001 set-up a matrix of times. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jstanley/FESCo_Scheduler
Based on that it looks like wed. at 18:00 UTC seems to be the best time.
j-rodum... is it just me, or are the utc to edt conversions off... ?
jds2001EDT is UTC-4
Kick_bad for me, I had to drop Wed,1800 from the list again
drago01use date
nirikjds2001: right now... but not when no DST
j-rodoh, crap, nm
I can't do simple math
bpeppleKick_: ok, let's see what other times work.
* j-rod somehow subtracted 6 from 1800 to get 2pm EDT
j-rodI'm game for anything but Tuesday/Thursday from noon to 3
er, 1600 to 1900
* nirik is pretty flexable. whatever works.
Kick_bpepple:  I can attend Wed 1800 sometimes, but not always. After September this time is ok with me, too
jds2001i've got somewhat unpredictable physical therapy schedules in the short term :/
* bpepple is fairly flexible on times also.
* jds2001 too
nirikis this time bad for anyone? we could just leave it here?
j-rodnot so good for me
bpeppleOne thing to note is that there is a meeting already scheduled at Wed. 19:00, so we are limited to an hour.
jds2001we also have to work around the schedule of this channel :/
nirikKick_: would earlier wed work better for you? 17?
dwmw2_YOWworks for me. As does Wednesday
Kick_nirik:  unfortunately not, I need to leave 17:00 CEST, thats 15:00 UTC
bpeppleok, so what time should we use?
Kick_how about Tuesday, 1700 ?
* bpepple works for me.
bpepplethough the KDE sig has a meeting at that time.
j-rodtues/thus 1600-1900 sucks for me
bpepples/KDE/packaging committe/
nirikmonday 17:00?
nottingKick_: board meets at 1800 on Tuesday, but it's somewhat reasonable
nirik: releng meets then
f13: although i suppose we could move that
f13releng could move an hour later
dwmw2_YOWI can't do Monday 17:00
or for a while either side of that.
* stickster wonders what the point of a schedule page was.
bpepplemaybe we need to use another channel for meetings (#meeting2 or some-such thing.)
dwmw2_YOWOFTC :)
nirikanything else in the schedule page that looks good?
bpepplemon at 16:00 is open.
dwmw2_YOWnot for me, I'm afraid
Kick_lets use Wed: 1800 and I try to attend as often as possible
* Kick_ can't do monday after 1500 at all
bpeppleKick_: wed at 18:00 works for me,
that work for everyone else?
jds2001Wed 1800 sounds good
* nirik is fine with that
bpeppleok, so we'll meet at wednesday at 18:00.
bpepplemoving on........
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- Elect new chair -- all
nirikI think bpepple has been doing fine, but if he wants someone else to take over thats fine too.
bpeppleAlright, does anyone wish to be the chair for the new FESCo.
* jds2001 votes for bpepple
bpeppleI'm fine with doing the admin stuff, but I wouldn't mind having someone else help out running the meetings.
Kick_bpepple +1
j-rodkeep on keepin' on, bpepple +1
nottingbpepple +1
bpeppleok, so it sounds like no one else wants to be chair.  I'm fine with doing again, but if anyone wants to step in sometime just holler.
if there's nothing else we can probably move on.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- sponsor nominations -- Jon Ciesla (limb) -- all
nirik+1 from me.
bpeppleok, limb asked to be made a sponsor last week, and he got quite a few '+1' on the mailing list.
+1 from me.
* Kick_ had a look at some of his reviews and packages, looked ok to me. +1
dwmw2_YOW+1 for bpepple too, btw
f13+1 for bpepple although I don't think I have voting powers anymore
bpepplef13: your opinion still counts here. ;)
j-rodhey, there's a jwb
bpeppleok, I see seven '+1' for limb, so we've approved his request.
I'll upgrade him after the meeting.
moving on to features now.....
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GlitchFreeAudio
bpepplepoelcat: you about?
bpepplelooks like poelcat isn't here.
bpeppleok, well anyway the first feature up for us to review is the Glitch free audio for PA.
f13poelcat is at OSCON
bpepplef13: ah, that makes sense.
nirik+1 from me. Seems like a good thing to tout...
jds2001+1, though I'
Kick_from the description I'd say GlitchFreeAudio is a prereq for the next topic LatencyPolicy  +1
bpepple+1 from me also.  does anyone know the status of the alsa work needed.
j-rod+1 here
jds2001I'd like to see an expected savings in powertop for various chipsets
drago01bpepple: he submitted patches upstream and there are in our alsa packages now ... (but new issues might still show up)
bpeppledrago01: cool, thanks for the update.
ok, I see six '+1' for this feature, so we've approved it.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/LatencyPolicy
mclasen_I'm working with lennart to add some kind of opt-out option for the glitch-free stuff
since some drivers will have issues...
jds2001-1, the test plan need a lot of work
notting-1 *for now*. upstream kernel raised quite a few questions
* jds2001 would have no idea what policies are available nor the desired effect for each one
nirikthere was also some discussion about it overlaping with other things on the devel list.
j-rodalso stomps on some existing tools, no plans made for integration/obsoletes/whatever
yep, it overlaps with cpuspeed
nirik-1 for now here too...
* nirik would love to see the issues solved and this resubmitted.
j-rodbut lacks a lot of the (dare I call it) logic the cpuspeed init script has for automagically setting stuff up
* jds2001 too
j-rodso yeah, -1 for now from me too, but once some stompage has been ironed out, sure
bpepple-1 for now, until some of the issues brought up here have been addressed.
Kick_-1 until better integrated in existing stuff
bpeppleok, I see five '-1' for this.  Would FESCo members please add their questions to the discussion page of this feature, so the feature owner can address them?
bpeppleDoes anyone have anything else to add about his feature, or should we move on?
bpepplenirik: done.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NodokaNotificationTheme
* jwb_OLS finally shows up
bpepplejwb_OLS: welcome.
jwb_OLSi fail.  sorry
* jds2001 docks jwb_OLS's pay
bpepplejwb_OLS: no worries
bpeppleok, regarding this feature request, I'm not 100% sold that it should be a feature.
* nirik notes there is no mention of updating the Xfce nodoka theme, but I expect that wouldn't be too hard.
jds2001why not? It's a visible change to the user experience.
* jds2001 assumes that this will be default, no?
jds2001(even though it's not now)
bpepplejds2001: It seems like a fairly minor upgrade to the theme IMO.
jwb_OLSit's an incremental improvemennt
nottingwell, we don't normally relnote or tout the artwork... it just 'is'
* f13 watches jwb try to type on is mid
j-rodrounded corners and shading hardly seems to be a "feature" that really needs people voting on it, imo
bpepplej-rod: right.  If the majority of the theme was being changed, I could see this being a feature, but it only seems to address the notification bubble.
jwb_OLSit's cool but, meh
* j-rod says "not a feature, just do it"
wwoodsnobody has to change their workflows, there's no need for integration or coordination with other projects/maintainers
bpepplej-rod: +1
nirikj-rod: +1
wwoodswork with the art team, make it part of the F10 theming efforts.. sure
nottingj-rod: +1
Kick_-1 from me, looks more like normal development/artwork stuff to me, not a real feature. +1 to 'just do it'
bpeppleok, I see five votes for not having this be a feature, and to 'just do it'.
* stickster notes that poelcat can take this as a sign we should slightly refine the feature definition
jds2001j-rod: +1
bpeppledoes anyone have anything else they wish to add before moving on?
jds2001stickster: i just got to thinking about release interviews.
stickster: it would be kinda odd for you to say "we have rounded bubbles now" :)
sticksterjds2001: ;-)
bpeppleok, moving on.......
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OpenChange
niriktesting might be hard/impossible
notting+1, although sounds like it may not actaully make it
* nirik has no exchange servers anywhere here.
jds2001this is pending evolution relicensing?
* j-rod wonders if stickster has a funky trans-am with the dual exhaust
jds2001 is sad to admit that $DAYJOB uses Exchnage
bpepple+1 to OpenChange feature.
j-rod+1 for openchange, if its ready in time
nottingjds2001: is that a volunteer i see?
nirik+1 here too... not a bad impact if it doesn't make it.
jds2001notting: sure :)
wwoods"pull in alpha builds of samba4" - boy that makes me nervous. stil. if abartlet thinks that's reasonable..
mclasen_jds2001: I think OpenChange makes sense even without the evo part, but of course, getting something better than the current evo connector is a big motivation for this...
jwb_YOWis evo connector going away if this gets in?
bpepplejwb_YOW: I don't think so.
bpeppleok, I see seven '+1' to this feature, so we've approved it.
wwoodsoh duh, I'm reading this wrong. samba4 is packaged separately. no reason to be nervous.
nottingactually, what's the approval # now? 5 or 6?
bpepplenotting: 5.
any other questions about the open change feature? If not, we can move on.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SecurityAudit
bpeppleThis feature was pushed back from F9 wasn't it?
* jhrozek ready to answer questions about this feature
nirikyeah, it was.
* nirik hasn't looked too hard at it of late... it was very new in f9
Kick_this looks like just another intrusion detection system to me, is this really a Feature  ?
wwoodswell, it's a framework for other security tests too - anyone can add their own tests
so, if I understand right, package owners can add additional security tests to be shipped with their packages
jhrozekwwoods: exactly.
nirikbut then their packages require sectool?
jds2001well %package-sectool would
at least that's how i'd personally handle it.
wwoodsso, yeah. it's not just an IDS app, it's a systemwide framework for security testing
jds2001: yeah something like that would be more reasonable, for packagers that want to add tests
jhrozeksectool has a built-in mechanism that skips a test if it requires a package that's not installed (we have an openvpn test, for example). Or you can have the test packaged separately as jds2001 says.
* nirik thinks it would be better to add tests to sectool and they can do nothing if the package/thing isn't installed.
cmpahar back
nirikjhrozek: is sectool submitted/shipped in any other distros? or only fedora?
bpeppleNote for new members in case you haven't seen this.  Here's what we defined features as: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy/Definitions
jhrozeknirik: only fedora so far. AFAIK we're all Fedora users. But there's nothing that stops you from doing that.
bpepple+1 to this feature.
nirikjhrozek: ok, just wondering.
jhrozek: is sectool planned to be installed by default or included on the install media?
jhrozeknirik: I have no idea.
jwb_YOWdo you think it should be?
jhrozekYes, but then again, I'm biased :-)
jwb_YOWok, that's a tangent from the Feature itself i guess
+1 from me
bpeppleok, I see four '+1' on this, does anyone else want to weigh-in on this feature?
Kick_+1 as it seems to be somewhat different to aide/snort/tripwire with the test framework
jwb_YOWj-rod, ?
nirik+1 here. If we are touting it, we might want to consider at least adding it to the media
j-rodI have no reason to object to it, so I guess that qualifies as a +1
bpepplealright, that puts us at seven '+1' to this feature, so we've approved it.
ok, we at the hour point, does anyone have to leave? Or should we try to cover the remaining two features on the schedule?
jwb_YOWi can wait
* nirik can hang around.
jds2001 can hang around
bpeppleok, let's finish up the last two features then.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance --https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/BetterLIRCSupport
jds2001needs a better test plan
f13oooh man I love what this feature is trying to do
* jds2001 cant go to the store and tell them that I want a "supported remote" without them giving me a blank stare.
bpepplef13: agreed.  hadess is doing some cool stuff.
* jds2001 thinks this is ultra-cool, though
jwb_YOWjds2001, what do you need added to make it better?
mclasen_jds2001: theres a link to a list of supported remotes somewhere on the page
jwb_YOWyeah, in the status section
bpepple+1 here also.
jwb_YOWi'm a +1
nottingi'd be curious what's involved with porting other apps to use the new stuff
jds2001a list of supported remotes, and what i should be able to do with them.
nirik+1 here
j-rod+1, I've actually been doing some of the infra work on this, since I'm co-maint. on the lirc userspace and maintain our lirc kernel patches... :)
jds2001+1 from me, then
bpeppleok, I see six '+1', and no '-1', so we've approved this feature.
mclasen_notting: I can ask hadess to explain a) what apps are currently 'supported' and b) whats involved with adding support
jwb_YOWmclasen_, that would be nice
bpepplemclasen_: that would great. thanks.
nottingmclasen_: what's there now implies it's rhythmbox & totem. would be interesting if it extends to 'any app that supports media keys'
* j-rod wonders... can mythtv be included in the test criteria?... :)
bpeppleok, is there anything else? Or should we move on?
jwb_YOWmove on
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance --https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Artistic1Removal
jds2001this is more of a non-feature :)
jds2001we are removing things.
bpepplejds2001: yeah, but it might be worth promoting since it will be a visible change for our users.
nirikI'm ok with it being a feature for media/pr purposes.
jwb_YOWwe remove orphans too... we don't do Feature stuff for that...
nirik"fedora means freedom"
* stickster thinks some of this is actually fixing (w/ upstream) and not removing -- see #2 and #4 in definition.
drago01(bpepple: please add a space before the http to let xchat regognice the urls as such ;) )
f13I think this was done as a feature due to coordinating with a lot of packages
and that it is something significant that Fedora is doing to clean up the licensing world
we've done /far/ more work in this space int he last few releases than Debian ever has
notting+1 to doing this. dunno how much it needs touted
bpeppledrago01: yeah, I mention it to poelcat for next week.
f13especially when you combine it with things like the zimbra relicense
drago01bpepple: ok, thx
nirik+1 here
jwb_YOWi have no problems doing it.  just scratching my head as to whether it's a Feature.  but +1
jds2001+1 here
jwb_YOW: significant PR value
jwb_YOWor backlash
j-rodhrm, some of those are going to hurt a bit
* j-rod has to use conmux, which this'll bust
jds2001 eyed perl-Authen-Radius in particular
Kick_+1 from me
j-rodbut such is life. +1
f13j-rod: convince upstream to relicense (:
bpeppleok, that's seven '+1', so we've approved this feature also.
j-rodf13: I'll pawn that off on bpeck, he's the conmux maintainer, iirc. :)
bpeppleok, that's it for feature this week.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora
j-rod(its used extensively by rhts)
jwb_YOWdid we elect a chair in my absence?
f13jwb_YOW: bpepple
jwb_YOWoh good
f13er wait
jwb_YOW: we elected you
f13(and by we, I mean the people actually in FESCo)
bpeppleyeah, they elected me again, but if you want to run the meeting I'm more than willing to let you. ;)
* j-rod was gonna try to pull that off before f13 ruined it and said bpepple already... :)
jwb_YOWbpepple, i don't care.  you do a fine job
f13j-rod: I'm running a bit ragged today, can't make the good jokes fast.
bpeppleok, is there anything else folks want to discuss before wrapping up the meeting.
j-rodf13: I have no idea why that might be... :D
* nirik would like to voice support for broken EVR reports f13 has been doing./
bpepplenirik: agreed.
jwb_YOWf13, which script are you using?
nirikI would like to see those run and nag regularly.
f13nirik: thanks.  I'm ashamed that I haven't done this earlier.
jds2001mether mentioned the collective maintainer policy on the list
let's throw that on the agenda for next week
f13jwb_YOW: the script scm url  is at the bottom of th emessage
jwb_YOWwe need to get back to 1 script
f13Next feature for the script I think is mailing the contact list for the package, and skvidal is working on getting <package>-contact@fp.o aliases created
bpepplejds2001: do you know if that proposal was sent to the lists yet?  I don't remember  seeing it, but maybe I just missed it.
skvidal-owner, I think
f13jwb_YOW: I made this script capable of taking arbitrary koji tags to compare
skvidalbut yah - script is finished, I just need to make it autocreate regularl
nirikbpepple: it was a long time ago...
jwb_YOWf13, good.  that was on my "never going to get done" todo list
f13skvidal: does it catch all that have 'watch' set, or is it just owner and co-maintainers?
skvidalit's all of them
bpepplenirik: ok, probably why I don't remember it.  I'll add it to the schedule for next week.
f13in the happy future world, we'd run a similar test after every scm commit and drop the result on the bus
which could mean notification to the maintainers/committer that they made a booboo
and then after a successful build/tag we could run tests such as upgrade/install and send results to the same peoples
* nirik would love to hook in a source check thing there too. ;)
f13my script really doesn't help the obsoletes/provides scenarios
nirik: as would I
lots of things we could do... code+time (:
nirikshould be easy if we can do it async.
with the message bus concept we would be doing all of these things in async
bpeppleok, if there is nothing else, I say we wrap up this week's meeting.
* j-rod wishes these guys that just sat down next to him would stfu so he could think...
* bpepple will end the meeting in 60
jwb_YOWj-rod, sadly your seat is by the power cord
* bpepple will end the meeting in 30
* jds2001 wfh because of my arm
jds2001never been more productive in my life :)
j-rodthough my battery is fully charged now...
* bpepple will end the meeting in 15
jwb_YOWdwmw2_YOW, where are you?
* j-rod at OLS in the lobby-ish thing
bpepple-- MARK -- Meeting End
dwmw2_YOWin the hotel
dwmw2_YOWpondering breakfast
bpeppleThanks, everyone!

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.5 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!