| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process | ||
| * warren calculating the current orphan list | ||
| bpepple | FESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, caillon, c4chris, dgilmore, dwmw2, f13, jeremy, jwb, notting, spot, nirik, tibbs, warren | |
|---|---|---|
| Hi everybody; who's around? | ||
| * tibbs here | ||
| spot is here | ||
| c4chris is here | ||
| jwb is here | ||
| warren here | ||
| * dgilmore is somewhat here | ||
| bpepple | ok, there's not much on the schedule for today, so we can probably get started. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- New Features - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Dashboard - poelcat | ||
| bpepple | poelcat about? | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: Feature Request - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/HandwritingRecognizer | ||
| * f13 | ||
| bpepple | +1 to handwriting feature seems pretty cool. | |
| warren | +1 | |
| tibbs | I saw that under review. I guess it's just a new package; if someone wants to hype that as a feature then I don't see any reason not to. | |
| * nirik is here now. | ||
| notting | might want to clarify that it's just cjk | |
| also, not sure it will be in any of the main spins, but that's not a dealbreaker for features | ||
| f13 | +1 from me, although the feature is generic sounding | |
| tibbs | Yeah, I'd propose changing the feature to CJKHandwritingRecognition | |
| c4chris | +1 | |
| nirik | yeah, +1 here with clarification... | |
| jwb | meh | |
| bpepple | tibbs: yeah, that makes sense. | |
| c4chris | tibbs: +1 | |
| tibbs | It also doesn't look like it does hangul. | |
| warren | tibbs, matter of adding to the dictionary | |
| tibbs | warren: I don't think so. | |
| It doesn't do kana either. | ||
| warren | "Currently recognizes Chinese characters as used in Traditional and Simplified Chinese hanzi, Japanese kanji, and Korean hanja." | |
| tibbs | But hangul is much more frequently used in modern Korean than hanja are. | |
| warren | from the description it sounds like it is being developed from a chinese-centric viewpoint | |
| * poelcat here | ||
| warren | which is OK, it is possible to add kana and hangul later | |
| don't get too hung up on this, I think. | ||
| notting | hm. it's nice that he has a version roadmap that goes to 1.1, but he's only at 0.1 now | |
| bpepple | warren: agreed. | |
| tibbs | warren: I think you are assuming something about the architecture of their recognition engine that is not stated in the feature request. | |
| I just don't want to go hyping "We have Korean handwriting recognition" when we might not actually have that. | ||
| warren | let's just see how far they go before F9? If it looks pretty useless then we will refrain from mentioning it in the release notes. | |
| f13 | worksforme | |
| warren | We could approve it and say "tone down the korean if you don't really support korean" | |
| or call it "ancient korean" =) | ||
| notting | we also already ship tomoe, which purports to do the same thing (differently) | |
| warren | I say, approve with comments? | |
| tibbs | I guess the point is to get someone who communicates in those languages to tell us how useful the software actually is. | |
| * jeremy is here now | ||
| notting | tbh, it seems more at the 'Fedora Daily Package' level than 'Feature' level. but maybe i'm quibbling | |
| tibbs | I'll edit the feature request to ask for clarification on the kana/hangul question. | |
| warren | tibbs, that's a fair question, can't claim to support Japanese and Korean without it. | |
| next? | ||
| c4chris | I only count 5 +1's, so maybe we wait for that to be clarified ? | |
| notting | i'm -1 for now | |
| warren | notting, I guess if it were totally awesome and not half-baked it might be worth mention? | |
| c4chris, isn't this the final fesco meeting before we stop accepting features? | ||
| poelcat | yes | |
| c4chris | oh, didn't realize... | |
| warren | Or maybe, since reviewed features are largely for promotional purposes, perhaps we should review things like this later to see how good it really is. | |
| There might be things worth mentioning in the release notes that are awesome that weren't approved. | ||
| bpepple | I would lean towards accepting it for now, and seeing what progress is made. We can always drop it later. | |
| tibbs | I have no problem provisionally accepting this as long as it accurately represents what it does. | |
| poelcat | theoretically it has to be "done" by 2008-03-04 too :) | |
| notting | when i think that fedora would tout a 'Handwriting Recognition' feature, i would think it would be something supporting a majority of shipped locales (including latin), be integrated into X in some way for tablets to use, etc. | |
| caillon | +1 to "theoretically" :-) | |
| caillon | bpepple, agreed. so +1 on the feature from me. | |
| bpepple | ok, I see six '+1', and one '-1'. | |
| anyone else want to weigh in? | ||
| dgilmore | +1 | |
| jwb | 0 | |
| c4chris | with tibbs provisional ok, that'd be 7 (and 8 with dgilmore ...) | |
| tibbs | Yeah, you can count me as +1. | |
| bpepple | ok, so we've approved this feature for now. | |
| poelcat: is there anything else in regards to features to discuss? | ||
| poelcat | No more features to review ... next week if 'feature freeze' sticks at 2008-03-04 | |
| it will be time for the "Clash Round" http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/FeatureList | ||
| 'should they stay or should they go' | ||
| bpepple | fun. | |
| warren | when? | |
| tibbs | I guess the handwriting thing better shape up quickly, then. | |
| caillon | hm. i just noticed a few features that aren't there that i thought got approved. | |
| like i dunno.... firefox 3. | ||
| or xulrunner | ||
| poelcat | caillon: i sent mail on friday asking everyone to review the list | |
| jwb | i don't recall ff3 being a feature | |
| caillon | fair enough. maybe it's not :) | |
| notting | it should be | |
| jwb | i meant being proposed as one | |
| it should be | ||
| dgilmore | i think it should be one | |
| caillon | pretty sure walters wrote one up a while ago | |
| * caillon finds out | ||
| c4chris | yaeh, and I'm pretty sure we discussed xulrunner at some point | |
| jwb | i could be mistaken. xulrunner i remember though | |
| poelcat | nope; that was for F8 | |
| jwb | which, ff3 or xulrunner? | |
| poelcat | the feature page is incomplete for xulrunner | |
| ff3 i have not seen a page for | ||
| c4chris | wasn't xulrunner too late for F8 and pushed to F9 ? | |
| caillon | how is xulrunner incomplete? looks good to me! | |
| * warren has an updated orphan list. | ||
| poelcat | caillon when the hamsters turning the wiki wheel wake up I'll be able to tell | |
| caillon: no contingecny plan and no release notes | ||
| caillon | that's correct. there is no contingency plan. it's in and not coming out. | |
| warren | It wont come out of the closet. | |
| tibbs | Did I lag out or did it just get really quiet? | |
| nirik | ok, so where are we here? caillon: can you add release notes to xulrunner and we can vote on it? | |
| notting | <uncomfortable silence> | |
| * nirik nods at tibbs. I was thinking the same thing. | ||
| notting | caillon: do you want to volunteer to write a page for ff3? | |
| c4chris | the crickets just ate the hamsters I'm afraid :) | |
| caillon | just ran over to walters' cube | |
| he said he had written a ff3 feature page but he deleted it | ||
| since someone larted him over it for some reason | ||
| is there a way to find deleted wiki pages? | ||
| bpepple | the status of some the app built against xulrunner need to updated also. (I'm thinking of epiphany, and possibly others). | |
| caillon | nirik, i would probably defer to upstream relnotes which aren't there yet. | |
| f13 | have we moved on topics? | |
| bpepple | f13: yeah. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: Features - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureXULRunner | ||
| * warren confused. | ||
| warren | what are we doing? | |
| nirik | well, clearly we want xulrunner and firefox3 features... perhaps caillon could work with poelcat to get those pages in shape and we can vote on them via email in the next day or so? | |
| dgilmore | nirik: sounds good | |
| caillon | sure | |
| bpepple | works for me. | |
| c4chris | worksforme | |
| f13 | yeah, worksforme | |
| bpepple | poelcat does that work for you? | |
| poelcat | yes, my only request is that | |
| if a section is n/a or whatever... please write it in | ||
| we can't read minds :) | ||
| so an empty section is ambiguous to many other readers | ||
| that is all | ||
| caillon | fair enough | |
| bpepple | poelcat: anything else? or should we move on? | |
| poelcat | all done | |
| bpepple | ok. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora | ||
| warren | orhans | |
| orphans | ||
| * warren needs a pastebot | ||
| warren | http://paste.ausil.us/293 | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: Orphan packages - warren | ||
| warren | shorter list of orphans | |
| some have co-owners but not owners | ||
| not sure what to do with those | ||
| notting | tthe co-owners have been promoted? | |
| jwb | some don't want to be | |
| i question the value of being a co-owner then | ||
| caillon | is there really a "promotion"? | |
| aren't co-owners on equal footing? | ||
| tibbs | I don't really understand what distinguishes the primary maintainer from the others. | |
| bpepple | jwb: agreed, seems that don't have an interest in the package. | |
| tibbs | I guess it's who the bugs get assigned to by default. | |
| nirik | it's a quirk of the pkgdb I think... | |
| I think we should set comaintainers to owner, if they don't want that they can re-orphan... | ||
| caillon | +1 | |
| notting | abadger1999: can pkgdb automatically promote co-maintainers to primary if primary disowns a package? | |
| nirik | but then why they were co-maintainer in the first place is another question. | |
| warren | notting, +1 | |
| abadger1999 | notting: Not yet. | |
| warren | OK, for now we manually promote a co-owner. | |
| abadger1999 | notting: How do we decide which comaintainer should be promoted? | |
| warren | In the future pkgdb will do it automatically. | |
| abadger1999, shortest straw | ||
| notting | abadger1999: in time-honored yum/rpm tradition, shortest account name wins | |
| * warren shakes head. | ||
| nirik | shortest package^H^H^H^H^H^H^Husername ? | |
| * nirik nods at notting. Ha. jinx. | ||
| caillon | lowest user integer id? | |
| * abadger1999 changes account name to supercalifragiliciousexpialadocious | ||
| f13 | if there are multiple co-maintianers, how do you promote all of them, or can bugzilla have a list of initial owners? | |
| warren | f13, bugzilla can have only one "owner", the others are CC'ed I think. | |
| abadger1999 | f13: Only one can be promoted. | |
| caillon | f13, no, this is why other bugzillas use -maint aliases | |
| i think we're the only ones stuck on still using real people as owners in bugzilla | ||
| warren | abadger1999, btw, moving to pkgdb for bugzilla auto-CC sync had a few drawbacks, like the inability to auto-CC upstream people who are not fedora developers. | |
| abadger1999 | notting: Should we consider anyone with (commit access || aproveacls) eligible for promotion? | |
| * f13 still thinks bugs should be owned by <package>@fedoraproject.org and where that email goes depends on pkdgb de jour | ||
| caillon | abadger1999, in seriousness, do you track the length of time they have been a co-owner? | |
| abadger1999 | warren: I now. We need FAS2 to make it easy for upstream people to have a Fedora account. | |
| caillon | f13, agreed | |
| nirik | abadger1999: sounds good to me, and that would make further discussion here moot, as there is only 1 person on those packages | |
| abadger1999 | caillon: No but we could. | |
| warren | OK so manual promotion (and later auto-promotion) is decided. Next we need to decide on when to remove orphans. | |
| abadger1999 | When they got an acl is logged in the db. | |
| c4chris | f13: good idea | |
| caillon | abadger1999, i think that would be useful even if we don't use it to promote people | |
| EvilBob | I was going to ask about this for the packages my SIG has been submitting | |
| abadger1999 | Although there will be a big tie for a while since most people were imported from owners.list when the pkgdb started. | |
| warren | abadger1999, any ballpark ETA on fas2? | |
| abadger1999 | warren: We are aiming for early March. | |
| warren | nice | |
| caillon | abadger1999, that's fine | |
| abadger1999 | warren: mmcgrath and ricky are spearheading it and I am doing most of the database work. | |
| notting | abadger1999: maybe && instead of || | |
| abadger1999 | warren: It's pretty close | |
| * warren is super glad it is based on a RDBMS | ||
| nirik | warren: I would say remove orphans asap... promote those 3 with co-owners to owners, and then wait a day and block/dead.package the rest? | |
| abadger1999 | notting: Okay. I'll make a ticket and add all this information. | |
| warren | How about this: Promote those 3 owners, WARN one more time today, with end of Friday as the kill time. | |
| jeremy | warren: can you make sure that none of the ones on your list are the ones that jesus was going to take? | |
| (if he hasn't gotten sponsored yet) | ||
| * warren looks | ||
| nirik | jeremy: one is. | |
| warren | jeremy, is anyone taking care of Jesus? | |
| jeremy | nirik: I thought so, but my memory is fuzzy enough that I wasn't going to stake the discussion on it :) | |
| nirik | but it already has devrim saying he would take it. | |
| not sure about the rest. | ||
| jeremy | warren: he's getting one or more of the packages re-reviewed to get a sponsor I believe | |
| nirik | jeremy: unfortunately, they are all java packages... and with no java guidelines, not many people are going to touch it. | |
| warren | hm | |
| gnome-blog is still an orphan | ||
| jeremy | gnome-blog is orphaned _upstream_ | |
| tibbs | java guidelines are turning into a big problem. | |
| * nirik guesses he can sponsor jesus and help him... the java packages are already in, so maintainer is better than orphaning them. | ||
| jeremy | hence, this should come as little surprise | |
| warren | jeremy, so what should we do? | |
| tibbs | Or the lack thereof, I guess. | |
| * dwmw2_BOS arrives, somewhat late | ||
| jeremy | warren: orphaning it is fine. there are lots of other blog posters that we could change to be default | |
| nirik | tibbs: totally agreed. I wonder if jesus knows java well and could help with guidelines... I can ask. | |
| warren | jeremy, so both block and remove from comps? | |
| jeremy | nirik: that would be great | |
| warren: unless someone steps up, yep | ||
| f13 | I already told jesus that we wouldn't remove anything out from under him as he got into the system. | |
| so no need to rush jesus's entry | ||
| jeremy | f13: right, I just said we should make sure not to block any of those packages | |
| caillon | wwjd? | |
| warren | the remaining five packages are not Jesus's | |
| aget | ||
| cgi-util | ||
| eds-feed | ||
| gnome-blog | ||
| windowlab | ||
| nirik | gnome-blog was discussed on the list as being dead upstream. | |
| jeremy | warren: to the orphanarium they go! | |
| nirik | aget was orphaned for being dead upstream I think. | |
| bpepple | jeremy: +1 | |
| warren | jeremy, time to empty out the orphanarium. | |
| jeremy | let's not waste any more time on this :) | |
| warren | OK, posting last warning. | |
| * nirik nods. | ||
| warren | Fedora Orbital Laser is charging the capacitor. | |
| bpepple | ok, anything else we need to discuss today? | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora | ||
| skvidal | warren: I thought we used the orphans to fuel the oribital laser | |
| f13 | if any of ya'll want to help with the broken dep list before beta, that would be great. | |
| notting | skvidal: poor annie | |
| * warren wonders if any of these orphans will create broken deps | ||
| c4chris | where's the list ? | |
| skvidal | notting: "tomorrow, tomorrow, bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzrt" | |
| notting | warren: repoquery will tell you | |
| f13 | c4chris: the rawhide report. | |
| c4chris | I shall read it more carefully next time... | |
| bpepple | ok, I think we can go ahead and wrap-up today's meeting. | |
| * bpepple will end the meeting in 60 | ||
| bpepple will end the meeting in 30 | ||
| bpepple will end the meeting in 15 | ||
| bpepple | -- MARK -- Meeting End | |
| Thanks, everyone! | ||
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