| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process | ||
| bpepple | FESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, caillon, c4chris, dgilmore, dwmw2, f13, jeremy, jwb, notting, spot, nirik, tibbs, warren | |
|---|---|---|
| Hi everybody; who's around? | ||
| * tibbs here | ||
| warren here | ||
| f13 | ||
| notting is here | ||
| jeremy | ||
| nirik is here. | ||
| dgilmore is here | ||
| bpepple | ok, let's get started. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Any objection to this week's report from FPC at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-February/msg00990.html | ||
| * poelcat here | ||
| bpepple | I think the only item we needed to approve was rdieter ggz-client-libs proposal, | |
| s/,/./ | ||
| tibbs | Just a common-sense guideline for coordinating access to a file that needs to be modified by multiple packages. | |
| bpepple | agreed. | |
| notting | what's a ggz? | |
| warren | notting, open gaming server | |
| notting | ah | |
| *shrug*, seems ok | ||
| tibbs | ggzgamingzone.org, BTW. | |
| nirik | looks good to me. | |
| dgilmore | bpepple: +1 from me since i found the problem | |
| tibbs | This is used by both gnome-games and KDE4 for handling online gaming, and it's pretty neat. | |
| * bpepple doesn't have any problems either, since one of his packages was affected. | ||
| dgilmore | tibbs: freeciv uses it also | |
| bpepple | ok, I don't hear any objections, so I think we can move on. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- New Features - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Dashboard - poelcat | ||
| bpepple | poelcat: I figured we do this at the beginning of the meeting that way you don't have to stick around to the end. | |
| poelcat | thanks | |
| --- poelcat has changed the topic to: vote to DROP http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ServerProvides | ||
| poelcat | no status updates or returned communications from feature owner | |
| this was one of the ones mentioned last week | ||
| dgilmore | poelcat: drop it | |
| bpepple | +1 to dropping. | |
| tibbs | +1 | |
| warren | +1 | |
| * poelcat notes it can always be "brought back" up until feature freeze | ||
| notting | +1 | |
| f13 | +1 | |
| nirik | dropping is fine with me. | |
| * poelcat notes the +1s have it | ||
| --- poelcat has changed the topic to: vote http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gvfs | ||
| bpepple | +1 to gio. | |
| abadger1999 | Was this the Feature that was either punted from FESCo => FPC or from FPC => FESCo? | |
| (In reference to server provides) | ||
| bpepple | abadger1999: yeah, I believe so. | |
| poelcat | abadger1999: i'm not sure what the history is/was | |
| tibbs | FPC punted server provides up because we didn't feel that we could mandate that kind of thing at our level. Plus it needs coordination. | |
| dgilmore | +1 to gvfs | |
| notting | +1 | |
| tibbs | Wiki is timing out for me.... | |
| abadger1999 | I'm wondering if Patrice will feel he's getting the run-around. | |
| f13 | me too | |
| abadger1999: patrice was asked to update the feature page multiple times, and hasn't done so | ||
| abadger1999: I imagine he lost interest | ||
| abadger1999 | OTOH, the feature page essentially says, FESCo, please mandate that smtpdaemon packages add server(smtp) | |
| f13 | +1 to Bvfs | |
| er G | ||
| nirik | +1 to gvfs | |
| abadger1999 | Which kind of puts the ball in FESCo's court to either say yes this is a feature we wnat or no, this is not. | |
| poelcat | abadger1999: which they did | |
| any more +1 or -1 for gvfs ? | ||
| * c4chris here now, apologies for being late | ||
| abadger1999 | poelcat: Sorry. I see it now on the accepted feature list. | |
| jeremy | 0 on gvfs | |
| bpepple | realistically, this is a part of gnome-2.22 so I would say the +1 would have it. | |
| poelcat | abadger1999: FESCo accepted the feature and now because there have been no updates in 3 months we are dropping it | |
| tibbs | +1 gvfs; at least they talk about cross-desktop integration on the feature page. | |
| jeremy | bpepple: well, there's some controversy upstream on it, but maybe neither here nor there :) | |
| * poelcat counts six +1s and one 0 | ||
| bpepple | jeremy: yeah, about some regressions like network:///. | |
| jeremy | bpepple: yeah | |
| poelcat | we need a few more votes one way or the other | |
| warren | To be honest, us voting on gvfs really makes no difference. | |
| We're marketing it if we have it. Otherwise... ? | ||
| notting | 'work done by fedorans in upstream to make it better'? | |
| warren | oh | |
| eh | ||
| +1 | ||
| * poelcat notes the +1s have it | ||
| --- poelcat has changed the topic to: vote http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Swfdec | ||
| warren | it is disheartening to our desktop people when Ubuntu claims credit for something they wrote | |
| bpepple | warren: agreed. | |
| dgilmore | warren: sure we need to scream loudly when we do stuff | |
| notting | red_alert: swfdec - 0 pending testing results | |
| warren | What testing results would make it suitable? That isn't specified on this page. | |
| tibbs | Can we actually say that gstreamer-ffmpeg is required for stuff? | |
| dgilmore | tibbs: i dont think so | |
| bpepple | various website, like the ones provided here: http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/wiki/ScreenShots | |
| notting | basically, some indication that shipping a (more-or-less) neutered flash is actually useful for our users | |
| f13 | odd that it's marked 100% done but no testing has been done? | |
| dgilmore | bpepple: how far away is codena support? | |
| notting | tibbs: no | |
| tibbs | Then I guess we'd have to reject the feature as is. | |
| notting | also, the question is how many of those screenshots work with our codec set | |
| bpepple | dgilmore: Definitely not by F9, but I don't consider it a blocker since totem-mozilla doesn't have support yet either. | |
| dgilmore | bpepple: ok | |
| bpepple | notting: I believe they all do. | |
| * jwb is here now | ||
| warren | I'm not so sure neutered flash by default really helps us. | |
| bpepple | What won't work with our codec set is sites like youtube which require the flv gstreamer plugin. | |
| dgilmore | bpepple: my concern is that is we say hey we have flash support but lots of things dont work and we cant say how to make them work, it will look bad | |
| loupgaroublond | warren, we really need to shout shenanigens when ubuntu does that | |
| dgilmore | but it would be good to say hey we can play your flash | |
| warren | I might be OK with advertising, "You may optionally enable the leading edge FOSS implementation of Flash." | |
| bpepple | dgilmore: I agree, but as is right now we leave it up to our users to install the proprietary plugin for flash support. | |
| warren | which is still neutered | |
| How much sense does it to advertise a feature that is broken without proprietary plugins and even after that it is still neutered? | ||
| f13 | warren: depends on your level of brokenness | |
| warren: one might argue that all our music players are broken, because they don't support mp3 | ||
| warren | no no, even with working codecs swfdec can't do a lot of things | |
| dgilmore | bpepple: does it work with fedoratv out of the box? | |
| bpepple | I don't think so since I believe they use flash video. | |
| but I actually haven't tested it, so I could be wrong. | ||
| dgilmore | i really hope they are not using flash video that needs propietory stuff | |
| f13 | so how about we advertise it as the leading workin progress FOSS flash implementation, brought to you by release early, release often? | |
| dgilmore | f13: that would be ok | |
| f13 | and that I'm happy to leave up to the Marketing team | |
| c4chris | f13: I like it | |
| nirik | if you have it installed, and then install the nasty adobe flash plugin, what happens? which wins? | |
| f13 | and anybody who is concerned cna work with the marketing team on the language. | |
| bpepple | f13: I'm fine with that/ | |
| nirik: swfdec wins. | ||
| f13 | nirik: that's a great Release Notes item | |
| nirik | that could be confusing to users. ;( | |
| warren | I'm against installing it by default. | |
| f13 | warren: FF likely won't offer it as an option when you hit a flash site :/ | |
| bpepple | warren: that's why we're testing it, and will make a decision before the rc-release. | |
| warren | Seriously who are we kidding | |
| What kind of user experience is it to the user, "Sorry, the default experience demands that you buy plugins, and even after you do that it doesn't fully work." | ||
| false hope | ||
| f13 | warren: lets just pack it up and start selling windows then. | |
| warren | hyperbole | |
| * poelcat suggests going ahead with a vote and letting that sort things out--in the interest of time | ||
| warren | -1 | |
| * bpepple will abstain. | ||
| warren | If this means installing it by default, -1 | |
| dgilmore | +1 | |
| jeremy | +1 package of freedom ;-) | |
| warren | This is an unrealistic idea and bad for the user experience. | |
| f13 | I'm +1 for swfdec in fedora, it's already there, and for advertising it as a feature. I'd rather we revisit the 'installed by default or not' later. | |
| c4chris | +1 | |
| warren | I'm +1 if it is for advertising that the feature is available and installable. -1 for installing by default under any circumstances. | |
| nirik | +1 for the feature, -1 for installed by default. | |
| c4chris | (plus what f13 said) | |
| jwb | 0 | |
| notting | it was installed by default in the alpha,right? | |
| are we getting any feedback? | ||
| dgilmore | notting: think so | |
| dgilmore | bpepple: was it? any feedback? | |
| bpepple | dgilmore: yeah, it was installed by default in the alpha, | |
| tibbs | I see no reason we can't say "Hey, by the way, we made this and it's cool." But I can't imagine that I'd actually put it on my desktops. | |
| bpepple | and I've got an open bug of website that swfdec doesn't work with. | |
| nirik | bpepple: youtube? ;) | |
| bpepple | nirik: I will work if you've got gstreamer-ffmpeg installed. ;) | |
| nirik | yeah, but we can't note that or point to it, right? | |
| f13 | right | |
| insert the need for codeina | ||
| warren | swfdec cant do many flash applications beyond just video. | |
| maybe it will one day | ||
| * poelcat counts six +1s and one 0 (assuming warren has changed to +1) | ||
| f13 | Can we move on to the next topic? | |
| drago01 | ad banners work fine (if adblock isn't installed) ;) | |
| warren | but still demanding purchase of proprietary software is showcasing free software? | |
| bpepple | f13: I'm fine with that, we've got plenty of other things to discuss. | |
| jwb | yes | |
| warren | poelcat, if this vote was not about install by default, then +1 | |
| poelcat | warren: it's binary | |
| :) | ||
| warren | then 0 | |
| poelcat | so w/o enough +1s we consider this feature rejected? | |
| f13 | poelcat: erm. | |
| * poelcat just trying to move things along :) | ||
| f13 | poelcat: how about we adjust it slightly so that it says "to be installed by default will be determined later in the release cycle" | |
| poelcat | f13: we still don't have enough votes to approve | |
| bpepple | f13: isn't that already stated in the proposal? | |
| f13 | because I think everybody here is OK with having a feature about swfdec, it seems the only sticking point is installed by default. | |
| bpepple | detailed description last sentence. | |
| f13 | bpepple: nod. | |
| f13 | warren: read that paragraph, does that make it so you can +1? | |
| Currently the plan is to have swfdec-gnome installed by default, but this can change based on testing results during Rawhide development. | ||
| poelcat | notting: did you vote? | |
| notting | s/gnome/mozilla/ | |
| bpepple | notting: correct my bad. | |
| notting | poelcat: 1 for the feature, i suppose | |
| -1 for installed by default | ||
| warren | f13, I will not vote +1 now in order to give up my ability to vote against install by default later. | |
| tibbs | I still don't know that we can approve a feature that indicates a release note that we can't possibly add. | |
| f13 | warren: what? | |
| warren | we really need to move on | |
| * f13 is seriously confused by warren | ||
| * bpepple is also, but agrees we should move on. | ||
| jwb | MOVING ON... | |
| f13 | now just wait a moment | |
| * poelcat needs some type of resolution | ||
| f13 | where does this leave bpepple? | |
| f13 | are we going to have this same argument again next week? | |
| do we just drop his thing all together? | ||
| bpepple | blowing in the wind. ;) | |
| f13 | seriously people. | |
| abadger1999 | f13: (10:33:49 AM) warren: poelcat, if this vote was not about install by default, then +1 | |
| (10:33:58 AM) poelcat: warren: it's binary | ||
| f13 | we have one very good point from tibbs | |
| abadger1999 | (10:34:10 AM) warren: then 0 | |
| warren | "it's binary" means what? | |
| abadger1999 | That's the confusion | |
| poelcat | you either vote +1 or -1 based on what is presented | |
| f13 | bpepple: can you address tibbs' concern about mentioning things we can't mention? | |
| notting | poelcat: a resolution of no resolution? | |
| poelcat | if gets voted down then owner brings back after rewrititing | |
| why is this so hard? :) | ||
| f13 | poelcat: we need to be able to tell bpepple /why/ we voted it down. | |
| warren | For the sake of time efficiency of this meeting we need a clearer thing to vote one for the next meeting. can this be defined? | |
| bpepple | f13: definitely, if the release notes need to be modified I have no problem with doing that. | |
| f13 | poelcat: because it seems to me, the only -1 here is for something that is already in the proposal. | |
| warren: how much clearer do you want it?! | ||
| dgilmore | warren: you can vote +1 now to testing and if it is a bad experince it will get removed from default install | |
| f13 | "this can change based on testing results during Rawhide development." | |
| warren | I move that we approve the feature, but EXPLICITLY return to vote on the install by default part in a later meeting. | |
| I do not want "testing" to decide install by default without a FESCo vote. | ||
| c4chris | fine with me | |
| f13 | warren: ultimately it's always FESCo's dececision what gets installed by default. | |
| warren | But you already see three -1's on install by default so I'm doubtful that will pass, but that's just a comment. | |
| * poelcat suggests calling stalemate and moving this to the mailing list | ||
| warren | we really need to move on | |
| f13 | great, lets waste another meeting. Can't we be flexible enough to just approve the feature and ask bpepple to clarify the release notes and the language around default or not? | |
| f13 | and be DONE here? | |
| abadger1999 | "Currently the plan is to have swfdec-gnome installed by default, but this can change based on testing results during Rawhide development. " => "Whether swfdec-gnome is installed by default will be voted on by FESCo before beta release based on testing" | |
| * f13 feels like we're being a victim of our own red tape. | ||
| bpepple | abadger1999: +1, and would add in having the desktop team weigh in on the decision also. | |
| warren | abadger1999, +1 as long as fesco decides installed by default | |
| abadger1999 | "Whether swfdec-gnome is installed by default will be voted on by FESCo before beta release based on testing and desktop team feedback" | |
| c4chris | abadger1999: +1 | |
| f13 | abadger1999: +1 | |
| bpepple | +1 | |
| notting | ... and bribes. oh wait, did i say that out loud? | |
| +1 | ||
| nirik | +1 | |
| poelcat | whew! | |
| --- poelcat has changed the topic to: vote http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NewGdm | ||
| warren | Wait, we didn't hear from the superdelegates yet. | |
| bpepple | only took about a half-hour. ;) | |
| +1 to GDM. | ||
| warren | I think the new GDM is ugly, but +1 | |
| =) | ||
| notting | +1 | |
| jeremy | +1 | |
| nirik | +1 | |
| jwb | +1 | |
| dgilmore | +1 | |
| * poelcat notes the +1s have it | ||
| f13 | +1 | |
| tibbs | +1 | |
| --- poelcat has changed the topic to: vote http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/JigdoRelease | ||
| * abadger1999 edits swfdec description | ||
| c4chris | +1 | |
| tibbs | Although I wonder how well KDE interacts with all of this fancy GDM stuff. | |
| tibbs|h tibbs | ||
| dgilmore | tibbs: not sure. last time i tried gdm you couldnt log into KDE | |
| KDM needs alot of love also | ||
| jwb | who has to create these Jigdo files? | |
| c4chris | how does releng likes jigdo ? | |
| jwb | we dont? | |
| f13 | we've had very very little interaction with it | |
| jwb | right | |
| i left off "know" | ||
| f13 | I kept being told "pyjigdo is almost ready for use, almost ready for use" and never engaged to try it | |
| nirik | unity has used it for their respins a lot. | |
| f13 | and this feature page was written completely without our input | |
| and I haven't seen any patches to our compose tools | ||
| to make use of jigdo | ||
| jwb | hence my "who creates the files" question | |
| * c4chris would like some buyin from releng first... | ||
| * bpepple agrees with c4chris. | ||
| notting | it's only useful for those who want to use a (more or less) linux-only tool to patch together their media | |
| warren | well, hold on a second | |
| notting | and even then, only adds benefit for those who already have some of the content downloaded | |
| warren | you don't realize that jigdo is also potentially a efficient distribution tool | |
| f13 | so I'm -1 until releng gets some interaction with those proposing using jigdo, a clear picture of how it would be used in our compose tools, how and where the templates go, how we're going to advertise them, how we're going to verify that the jigdo templates are working.... | |
| warren | more efficient than bittorrent | |
| jwb | warren, no, i realize that very well | |
| notting | warren: it cannot replace bt, ever | |
| nirik | notting: there is a windows client I think... also it spreads load over mirrors instead of big iso downloads for one mirror... weather thats better or not, hard to say. ;( | |
| dgilmore | ikk defer to releng on this | |
| ill | ||
| notting | warren: so its efficiency is only ever going to be minor and incremental | |
| jwb | i've actually used it a bit, but would like answers to f13's questions first | |
| warren | it doesn't require users to open ports to participate | |
| and mirrors are increasingly not very appreciative of bittorrent | ||
| tibbs | Can we table this now and ask releng look at it and add their comments to the page? | |
| warren | mirror maintainers like jigdo for the efficiency | |
| bpepple | tibbs: +1 | |
| warren | tibbs, +1 | |
| jwb | isn't that what f13 just said? | |
| bpepple | jwb: yes. | |
| f13 | guess I'll edit the page. | |
| poelcat | any more +1 to tibbs proposal? | |
| nirik | +1 to them answering questions/providing patches | |
| jwb | +1 | |
| c4chris | tibbs: (and f13) +1 | |
| nirik | also, the 99% isn't very accurate... would still need to get into the release scripts, have procedures written, etc. | |
| f13 | yeah, I'd say it's more like 10% | |
| dgilmore | -1 for now | |
| jwb | i don't think it would be overly hard to integrate | |
| f13 | although I don't know what they've done around pyjigdo | |
| jwb | but verification would be interesting | |
| f13 | so maybe 'pyjigdo' is near 100%, but the feature of using jigdo is a long ways off | |
| dgilmore | along with releng id like to what we will need to secondary arches | |
| warren | pyjigdo uses mirrorlist and even checks for fastestmirror? | |
| * nirik also kinda wonders what happened to deltarpm... guess no one was pushing it much and it's dead for now? | ||
| poelcat will bring back for vote next week | ||
| warren | anyway, we're almost at the hour | |
| --- poelcat has changed the topic to: vote http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/RandrSupport | ||
| poelcat | last one for today :) | |
| notting | +1000 | |
| bpepple | +1 | |
| f13 | dgilmore: ok, I'm done editing, feel free to add your questions. | |
| warren | nirik, lmacken has been working with jdieter on it, there's an open ticket in bodhi | |
| f13 | +1 | |
| warren | +1 | |
| jwb | +1 | |
| jeremy | +1 on the randr stuff. although again, the upstream side looks like it's going to be fun :) | |
| tibbs | That feature page says "throughout the desktop" and then goes on to mention only GTK+ and Gnome. | |
| c4chris | +1 | |
| warren | poelcat, suggestion, in future meetings perhaps offer up for vote the obviously not controversial ones first? that way it appears we got more done in a meeting. =) | |
| tibbs | -= | |
| -1 | ||
| warren | tibbs, ? | |
| poelcat | warren: great! send me the order in advance ;-) | |
| * poelcat usually tries to do that, but can't read 13 minds | ||
| jwb | poelcat, you're doing fine | |
| * nirik isn't sure either how this affects kde and Xfce... but it looks to be in general a good thing. | ||
| tibbs | warren: I can't vote for something that doesn't even consider anything othat than Gnome. | |
| bpepple | jwb: agreed. | |
| dgilmore | 0 | |
| warren | tibbs, will this actually hurt non-GNOME? | |
| dgilmore | though i think that kde takes care of alot of that stuff already | |
| * poelcat notes the +1s have it ... all yours bpepple | ||
| nirik | +1 I guess | |
| notting | this doesn't actually affect non-gnome. it only adds changes to gnome to better take advantage of the existing randr server feature | |
| tibbs | dgilmore: I haven't tried krandrtray from KDE4; the KDE3 one doesn't do randr 1.2. | |
| f13 | if there aren't KDE folks that are around to work on it, that's too bad for KDE | |
| bpepple | poelcat: great, thanks. | |
| f13 | I'm not going to hinder Fedora's usability just because KDE can't keep up, or doesn't put in a Feature request here. | |
| dgilmore | tibbs: kde4's systems settings tool has a bunch of stuff that shows me vga tv etc | |
| tibbs: ill plug the external screen in and see what i can do with it | ||
| bpepple | ok, we're pretty much out of time. Anything we *must* discuss before wrapping up for today? | |
| f13 | gcc43? | |
| jwb | yes | |
| warren | and perl | |
| tibbs | All I'm saying is that don't make the bias so obvious by saying "across the desktop" when you're not talking about my desktop at all. | |
| dgilmore | f13: i think gcc is a go | |
| tibbs | Just say "Gnome" and be done with it. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: gcc-4.3 | ||
| dgilmore | tibbs: agreed | |
| nirik | what are we discussing on this? it's in, things are being fixed... what more? | |
| f13 | tibbs: sure, so say that with your -1 rather than leading us to assume "You're not working on KDE, no cookie for you" | |
| tibbs | I said it immediately before my -1. | |
| f13 | so there are two things with gcc4.3 | |
| warren | f13, tibbs: let's just accept that the desktop team has a narrow vision, and it doesn't hurt non-GNOME, so let's move on. | |
| f13 | 1) perl-5.10.0 hasn't landed yet, spot is on paid time off today and tomorrow. | |
| warren | still requires fixes he mentioned? | |
| f13 | we originally were going to wait for perl-5.10.0, but it didn't happen so... | |
| warren | Does anyone else know the status of it other than spot? | |
| f13 | warren: he's been in communication with the perl sig, but I don't know whats there. | |
| him being out today/tomorrow was sudden and not well advertised. | ||
| dgilmore | tibbs: in kde4 it somewhat works | |
| f13 | I'm still planning on firing off builds on the 18th | |
| warren | last indication I see there is "Re: perl 5.10.0 makes IPC::ShareLite cry" | |
| it builds but tests fail | ||
| f13 | unless I can get word from him that perl is going to land on Monday | |
| tibbs | I haven't seen anything on fedora-perl-devel about the current status of the perl rebuilds except for that package warren just mentions. | |
| f13 | otherwise I think perl is just going to have to wait. | |
| warren | f13, it should be quick to get a status from spot on monday | |
| f13 | does anybody have objections to this? | |
| warren: yes, it should, and that's a must before pulling any triggers | ||
| warren | f13, it would be worthwhile to wait a day or so if perl really can land. | |
| bpepple | f13: Sounds reasonable to me. | |
| * f13 still has to get this rebuild script written by then too. | ||
| tibbs | What was the reason for waiting on Perl? I can't recall. | |
| warren | tibbs, many perl packages have binaries built by gcc? | |
| notting | avoiding double rebuilds | |
| nirik | sounds fine here... | |
| tibbs | They're all being rebuilt now anyway. | |
| c4chris | f13: fine with me | |
| warren | is that the only package that needs fixing? | |
| f13 | ok, moving on to 2) | |
| tibbs | warren: It may be the only package he's found that needs fixing. | |
| f13 | if mdomsch's rebuild scripts are any indication, we'll have some 300~ failed builds from our run | |
| we're going to need some help triaging those builds. | ||
| tibbs | Ugh. | |
| f13 | the script I'm working on is going to track the build tasks it fires off, so that it can check on the status of those tasks later and autofile bugs for things that failed. | |
| warren | should we begin tackling other maintainer's packages? | |
| drago01 | f13: when I have patches for packages to fix gcc-4.3 builds should I just commit (when acls are open) or wait for the maintainer? | |
| f13 | so we'll have a tracker bug with autofiled entries, however it would be good to get some folks dedicated to chewing through it and finding compile issues vs random other crap. | |
| nirik | were is the best place to get help with weird build failures? devel-list ? | |
| bpepple | f13: I might be able help out next week while I'm in Sacramento. | |
| f13 | nirik: yes. | |
| * nirik can probibly help. I can fix easy ones anyhow... | ||
| f13 | drago01: I think a bug filed with a short timeout for go-ahead is prudent | |
| c4chris | f13: I can help | |
| f13 | drago01: if it's after the mass rebuild, we may just go straight to fiding. | |
| fixing | ||
| drago01 | f13: ok | |
| warren | f13, perhaps we should send individual e-mails to maintainers sooner than Monday if their package is expected to fail? | |
| f13 | I'm also asking jds2001 to lend his triage folks to the effort. | |
| warren | is there a list of failures? | |
| jwb | mdomsch's list | |
| f13 | warren: mdomsch posted the list, sure we could probably do a more targetted mail. | |
| nirik | warren: mdomsch has been mailing maintainers. | |
| warren | nirik, ok good | |
| f13 | crossreference mdomsch's list with the need43 list. | |
| * nirik has gotten several... 3 packages left to fix. | ||
| tibbs | warren: http://linux.dell.com/files/fedora/FixBuildRequires/ has all of the data. | |
| * bpepple still has got 4 to fix. | ||
| f13 | I just wanted to give FESCo the heads up that this is coming, and put out hte call to arms. | |
| bpepple | agreed, I'll be sure to make a note in the meeting summary. | |
| jwb | i have a related questoin | |
| f13 | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=432425 will be the tracker bug. | |
| buggbot | Bug 432425: low, low, ---, Jakub Jelinek, NEW , GCC 4.3 Rebuild Failure Tracker | |
| f13 | jwb: shoot | |
| jwb | mass rebuilds have typically been (ab)used to detect absentee maintainers... are we going to want to do that this time? | |
| f13 | jwb: oh yeah, good question. | |
| * drago01 has only one to "fix" .. well fix one of the buildrequired packages | ||
| f13 | jwb: so in this case, it's the failed builds that will get bugs that can be tracked for maintainer responsiveness | |
| jwb | yes, but if we're going to go off and fix things... | |
| how long do we wait, etc | ||
| f13 | we don't have any tooling yet to do the tracking, nor do I think we'll be allowing for more than 2 weeks worth of nonresponsiveness | |
| honestly for this one, core packages (things in the Fedora spin) we should actively go after | ||
| ancillary packages... dunno. | ||
| note that there isn't a lot of time before Beta | ||
| jwb | yep, hence my semi-concern | |
| f13 | and if we booted packages due to nonresponsive maintainers, it'd have to be before Beta | |
| jwb | i'm almost of the mind that we should skip that this time | |
| f13 | I don't think there is a reasonable enough time to really actively go after nonresponsive maintainers. Ideally we'd be using a mdomsch rebuild shortly after Alpha as the trigger for rounding up non-responsives. | |
| warren | then there's a whole bunch of newly orphaned packages since the last orphan purge | |
| jwb | huh? | |
| i think f13 and i are saying skip the absentee stuff, just fix packages, and move on | ||
| f13 | jwb: yeah. | |
| * nirik nods. | ||
| warren | we barely have enough time for that | |
| so yes. | ||
| f13 | warren: however you do bring up a good point. | |
| * dgilmore agrees | ||
| * bpepple also agreed. | ||
| warren | f13, many of those orphaned are really obsolete too | |
| f13 | warren: next week we shoudl talk about what packages we should block prior to Beta due to orphaning. | |
| * c4chris agrees too | ||
| warren | f13, I can volunteer to look at the new orphans and see what really needs pruning | |
| f13 | actually we probably should see how many of those are on the rebuildlist. | |
| warren: ok, that would be awesome. | ||
| bpepple | ok, anything else? Or should we wrap up for this week? | |
| dgilmore | bpepple: wrap up | |
| bpepple | done. | |
| * bpepple will end the meeting in 60 | ||
| bpepple will end the meeting in 30 | ||
| bpepple will end the meeting in 15 | ||
| bpepple | -- MARK -- Meeting End | |
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