| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process | ||
| bpepple | FESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, caillon, c4chris, dgilmore, dwmw2, f13, jeremy, jwb, notting, spot, nirik, tibbs, warren | |
|---|---|---|
| Hi everybody; who's around? | ||
| * jeremy is here | ||
| dgilmore is here | ||
| warren | meh | |
| f13 | here | |
| * notting is here | ||
| bpepple | f13: was the answer to mdomsch question in the wiki, or is that something we still need to add? | |
| * tibbs here | ||
| notting | about when to stop adding new packages for a release? | |
| bpepple | notting: correct. | |
| * spot is here | ||
| bpepple | I thought we had already decided that, but I wasn't sure if it is on the wiki. | |
| f13 | bpepple: i thought we had already decided that, but I didn't get around to searching the minites | |
| f13 | minutes | |
| bpepple | f13: ok, I do a search after the meeting, and update the wiki. | |
| * abadger1999 watches and learns | ||
| poelcat here | ||
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: Misc - Features - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNetworkManager - poelcat | ||
| bpepple | poelcat: you want an update for this correct? | |
| poelcat | bpepple: please :) | |
| * f13 tries to get a dcbw online | ||
| caillon | f13, i just phone him | |
| here he is | ||
| f13 | wewt. | |
| dcbw | sorry, got sidetracked fixing evo bugs this morning | |
| USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND | ||
| dcbw 5542 1.2 45.4 739512 470504 ? Tl 09:26 2:49 evolution --component=mail | ||
| f13 | dcbw: heh, we were looking for an update on the NetworkManager feature | |
| dcbw | f13: want me to update the page then? | |
| bpepple | dcbw: yeah, that would be great. | |
| poelcat | dcbw: and is there anything we need to know here? | |
| dcbw | poelcat: we'll have feature parity with 0.6.x from F7; we won't have multiple device support for F8 gold but that is the next item on the list and can go in as an F8 update since the API won't have to change | |
| notting | dcbw: are we going to have future abi ties/breaks like nm/nm-vpnc has had recently? | |
| dcbw | notting: I don't want to rule that out, but maybe I'll just pad the public structures with some longs to be safe | |
| notting: there may be one with multiple device support if something unexpected comes up | ||
| notting: but I don't forsee anything | ||
| notting: at some point we can break the hard dep between NM-gnome and NM itself | ||
| f13 | dcbw: at the point you split them at the srpm level right? | |
| 'cause otherwise, what's the point | ||
| dcbw | f13: true; I'd like to break the applet out for F9 too | |
| f13: well actually, even if they were in the same SRPM there's still a point | ||
| f13: evo could pull in NM-gnome but not have to pull in NM itself | ||
| f13: which is perfectly legal | ||
| f13 | ah | |
| caillon | dcbw, what use would NM-gnome without NM be? | |
| dcbw | caillon: it has the previous symbols from libnm_glib in it | |
| caillon: which is what evo and a few others use rather than the D-Bus interface | ||
| caillon: those should be deprecated though | ||
| caillon: there's a pretty clear path forward at least | ||
| caillon | dcbw, anyway, isn't the plan to ship/enable NM by default? | |
| warren | in F9? | |
| dcbw | caillon: warren: yes | |
| caillon | yes | |
| warren | I hope only if we have a list of pre-conditions | |
| dcbw | warren: fine by me | |
| warren: if there's a list then there's a goal to work towards and a good way to measure progress of fixing that list | ||
| f13 | warren: yes yes, that's the reason why it isn't default now. | |
| bpepple | Is there anything else to discuss regarding NM? | |
| poelcat | dcbw: when you update the NM page can you make it reflect feature complete for F8? | |
| dcbw | poelcat: definitely | |
| poelcat | dcbw: thanks | |
| bpepple | dcbw: thanks for the quick update. | |
| dcbw | np | |
| bpepple | ok, we can probably move on then. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora | ||
| tibbs | marek, didn't you have a feature to propose? | |
| bpepple | There's nothing else formally on the schedule, but is there any F8 items we need to discuss? | |
| caillon | what's the status of the blockers? | |
| any change? | ||
| mether | 12 or so bugs left | |
| caillon | are they actual blockers that we will stop ship for if they still exist in two weeks? | |
| or just "blockers" | ||
| mether | we reviewed them yest. what is left appears to be real blockers | |
| f13 | caillon: each time I go through (as we get closer to release) I shave more off that aren't "blockers". | |
| caillon: some we really need more information about them, they are potentially blockers. | ||
| caillon | f13, okay. are people working on them or do we need to bonk some heads? | |
| i'm in vampyre country around halloween. i can summon up all kinds of hell :) | ||
| jeremy | they seem to be moving along for the most part | |
| caillon | ok | |
| notting | jeremy: if we can 'fix' things in the anaconda upgrade remove list with packaging, would oyu consider that worth doing? | |
| f13 | dcbw: what happens if you check vpnc connection to autoconnect? | |
| dcbw | f13: It should get ignored | |
| marek | tibbs: houps, I thought we start in 30 minutes | |
| jeremy | notting: well, I'm probably not going to remove things from the upgrade remove list at this point... | |
| notting | jeremy: right, but it would fix non-anaconda upgrades | |
| dcbw | f13: I don't want to bet too many $ on that though | |
| marek | hello everybody, indeed, I have a feature to propose | |
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedoraAstronomy | ||
| here, please | ||
| dcbw | f13: I'll add to my check it out list | |
| f13 | dcbw: ok. | |
| jeremy | notting: if we can fix it in packaging, it's definitely better to do so | |
| dcbw: it does get ignored | ||
| marek | tibbs: (it says that the meeting is at 18h UTC during winter time) | |
| jeremy | dcbw: I already tried :) | |
| tibbs | marek: It's not winter time in the US. | |
| notting | ...yet | |
| marek | tibbs: hm, I misunderstood the page in that case, sorry. | |
| tibbs | We're in that in-between time, unfortunately. | |
| notting | marek: seems fine as something to host on spins.fedoraproject.org, although i'd put any astronomy stuff in the 'engineering and scientific' group rather than creating a new one | |
| marek | notting: ok, understood | |
| mether | marek: you might want to post to fedora-devel list so more people can participate. Do you have a wishlist? | |
| marek | notting: hmm, after thinking now, you're right, it's better to group them under scientific group | |
| mether: not official yet, but we are already working with Sergio on it -- yes, I will bring this to devel list, if you find my feature good | ||
| mether | marek: i think we need more details to determine that | |
| marek | mether: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MarekMahut/Packaging -- this is a draft I drow few months ago, but it's only a 1/3 of packages I would like to include | |
| mether: which kind of details? if it's the package list, I would prefere to start working on it, if it's approved | ||
| mether | I just wanted to know if there are enough Free software packages to warrant a separate spin | |
| notting | it's stuff that probably wouldn't ever be in the main fedora spin, i would think | |
| mether | thats likely but you need a few dozen packages in that category that we can show off | |
| marek | mether: yes there is -- I'm using a old knoppix CD I've build two years ago for my astronomy trips | |
| marek | my estimation for that spin is about 20-30 packages | |
| mether | the custom spin process is outlined in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/CustomSpins | |
| bpepple | poelcat: when are we planning to start the features process for F9? | |
| mether | essentially you need a kickstart file with the complete list of packages and then send it to rel-eng and board for approval | |
| poelcat | bpepple: after F8, but we could start earlier | |
| marek | mether: yes, I read that but it's still a draft | |
| mether | marek: the one that we currently follow though | |
| bpepple | poelcat: we might want to d do quick review of our process, and see what failed and what worked, and adjust accordingly. | |
| warren | Are we still needed here? | |
| marek | mether: ok | |
| mether | one important feature that we didn't track in that list in system-config-firewall | |
| marek | tibbs: what's the normal process? any votting or something like that? | |
| poelcat | bpepple: that is my plan | |
| tibbs | marek: I don't think we're at the point of voting on F9 features yet. | |
| poelcat | bpepple: need to prepare for that a little in advance | |
| bpepple | poelcat: cool. In that case I think we should start the F9 feature process sometime soon after F8. | |
| poelcat: agreed. | ||
| marek | tibbs: ok, when should I return? :) | |
| caillon | bpepple, can we do that next week? that might take a while :) | |
| tibbs | I'm really not the one you should be asking. | |
| marek | tibbs: who then? | |
| f13 | bpepple: poelcat: yeah, something poelcat and I were talking about, getting an actually schedule layed down of when "planning" phases start for the next release | |
| f13 | which would include FESCo approving features | |
| bpepple | caillon: definitely. | |
| caillon | bpepple, (review what worked, what didn't, etc) | |
| poelcat | i laid out of my initial thoughts here: http://poelcat.wordpress.com/2007/10/16/fedora-8-feature-retrospective/ | |
| tibbs | Folks, is there anything marek needs to do regarding the spin he wants to make? | |
| Or is there any approval he needs from us? | ||
| bpepple | caillon: I was thinking maybe we could do the dissection on the mailing list. | |
| tibbs | The spin process indicates that he should talk to rel-eng. | |
| caillon | even better | |
| mether | tibbs, I dont think FESCo is involved at all | |
| notting | tibbs: once he's got more concrete output, yes. but he's on the right track with what he's doing | |
| marek | the FEL has been approved by FESCo, no? | |
| f13 | dcbw: a question came up regarding killswitch support. WHat is that actually supposed to do, that would be different from the module just disappearing out from under NM? | |
| dcbw | f13: huh? | |
| f13 | dcbw: nm detection of killswitch stuff. | |
| what does it actually /do/? | ||
| bpepple | marek: yes, it was approved for F8. We haven't started looking at F9 features yet. | |
| dcbw | f13: brings down the network device when you turn off the switch | |
| marek | bpepple: so, does FESCo approve these features or not? | |
| f13 | dcbw: and how is that different than if the module were rmmod'd behind nm's back? | |
| dcbw | f13: with a killswitch, the module is still loaded and nothing appears to have changed to NM (besides the IFF_RUNNING flag) so NM keeps going on as though you still have wireless | |
| bpepple | marek: FESCo approves them. | |
| dcbw | f13: an rmmod looks like a hotplug | |
| f13: a killswitch looks like _nothing_ | ||
| marek | bpepple: ok thank you, do you have any estimation when should I bring my feature request again? | |
| f13 | dcbw: oh hrm... it looked like to me the killswitch made the module go byebye on my laptop | |
| I should try it again. | ||
| dcbw | f13: only for _bluetooth_ because most of those are USB-connected | |
| f13: I've never seen one that hotplugs mini-PCI cards :) | ||
| bpepple | marek: not yet. We'll send out an announcement when we're starting the feature process for F9. | |
| f13 | dcbw: well, my kernel went all wonky when I last tried to killswitch the wifi. I'll try later today | |
| notting | marek: bpepple: i guess the distinction is that not all spins are (or need to be) tracked as features | |
| marek | bpepple: ok thank you -- in meantime, I will work on my feature request. | |
| dcbw | f13: killswitches are either (a) kill the power amp but don't tell the chip, (b) toggle a GPIO on the chip which the driver can poll, (c) toggle an interrupt for the chip, (d) are handled by ACPI and have to polled by ACPI code, or (e) a "soft" input button | |
| f13: each gets handled differently | ||
| bpepple | notting: agreed. | |
| f13 | dcbw: cute | |
| dcbw | f13: no shit | |
| f13: that's one of the reasons it's not better integrated yet | ||
| f13: for example, the dell utility for wireless control has to poke ACPI or nvram or something evil like that | ||
| bpepple | ok, is there any other FESCo business we need to discuss, or should we call it quits for today? | |
| marek | notting: ok, how should I know if my spin proposal should be considered as feature? | |
| f13 | bpepple: next week I want to vote on the development changes proposal. | |
| bpepple: so this is the last week to get input to me | ||
| caillon | yeah | |
| bpepple | f13: ok, I'll add it to the schedule for next week. | |
| poelcat | f13: when is the IRC meeting before to discuss it? | |
| notting | marek: i'm not sure | |
| f13 | poelcat: I think I'm just going to take over the FESCo meeting time and do it then. | |
| poelcat: two birds, one stone. | ||
| caillon | and dinner | |
| bpepple | ;) | |
| f13 | poelcat: I may not get to announcing that today, but please tkae that to those that need to know. | |
| poelcat | will do | |
| bpepple | ok, anything else? | |
| f13 | I'm good. | |
| * bpepple will end the meeting in 60 | ||
| f13 | caillon: so all that arguing over what compiz should do, and the 0.6.2 build doesn't do the cubespin, even with your new firefox. | |
| * bpepple will end the meeting in 30 | ||
| bpepple will end the meeting in 15 | ||
| bpepple | -- MARK -- Meeting End | |
| Thanks, everyone! | ||
| jeremy | f13: I noticed that (and thought I added it to the bug) | |
| bpepple | poelcat: are you on the FESCo mailing list? I was thinking of having the discussion regarding the feature process there instead of the devel list, since most folks wouldn't be interested in it. | |
| mether | bpepple: btw, shouldn't the FESCo list archives be open? It seems to be a invisible list | |
| f13 | jeremy: maybe. bugspam, noisy | |
| bpepple | mether: I think it was originally created to be a FESCo-only list so there could be candid discussions. Probably makes sense to open it up, since it tends to be mainly used for fesco admin type discussions. | |
| mether | bpepple: then consider this as a request to do so | |
| bpepple | mether: I'm fine with that. Let me check with the other FESCo members to make sure no one has a problem with it (not that I expect anyone to). | |
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