--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process
bpeppleFESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, caillon, c4chris, dgilmore, dwmw2, f13, jeremy, jwb, notting, spot, nirik, tibbs, warren
Hi everybody; who's around?
* tibbs here
nirik is here.
spot is here, f13 is on vacation
jeremy is here
* warren here
* poelcat here
bpeppleok, let's get started.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Any objection to this week's report from FPC at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-October/msg00081.html
bpeppleI believe FPC had a proposal regard tetext.
tibbsIt's spot's proposal to switch to using "tex-" as a prefix for TeX packages instead of the current "tetex-"
* nirik doesn't have any objections.
bpeppletibbs: right.  seems fairly straight-forward.
* spot vehemently disagrees. ;)
tibbsSince we're switching from tetex to texlive it would be nice to have a tex-distro-independent prefix for tex packages.
jeremyfine by me
* bpepple is fine with it also.
tibbsAlso, since FPC work is winding down, we're switching to having meetings every other week.
bpeppleok, unless anyone objects to the FPC proposal, I think we can move on.
caillondoes spot count? :)
tibbsFYI, the next FPC meeting will be Oct 16.
spotcaillon: i can't really oppose my own proposals. ;)
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting - Features not 100% completed - poelcat
caillonspot: though it would have some level of awesome
bpepplepoelcat: you want to lead?
poelcatI need some help updating the remaining features that are not at 100%.
With "feature freeze" way long ago and F8T3 out today I think we need to punt remaining feature development to F9 and focus on stabilizing F8
* jeremy waits for the wiki to load...
nirikso do we want to go thru each in turn?
* c4chris is here now, sorry to be late
bpepplepoelcat: looking at a few of the ones not at 100%, it looks to me like the owner just haven't updated the status possibly.
poelcatbpepple: right; i pinged them, but didn't get a response
bpepplepoelcat: maybe we need to get a bigger stick and poke them. ;)
poelcatbpepple: i'm open to any ideas :)
poelcatdo we want to go 1x1 or what do people prefer?
tibbsSome of these don't have to be at 100%; laptop support can continue to improve.
bpepplepoelcat: I'm fine with going 1x1.
jeremylooking over them, I think that yeah, it's mostly a matter of beating people into updating
nirikon buildid, f13 was going to make a new list of needed rebuilds... not sure how many are left.
poelcattibbs: i disagree. i think all of the features shouldbe written in such a way that you can tell when they are done and what to test
c4chrisso we are talking about the 5 that are not at 100%, right?
poelcatc4chris: yes
* dgilmore is here now
c4chriswhat's the missing 5% here?
nirikmight be some lingering packages that need a rebuild.
poelcatc4chris: welcome to my world :)
bpepplenirik: yeah, we probably need the list that f13 was creating to know what's needed to complete this.
jeremybut with the list, should be pretty straight-forward to knock out
bpepplejeremy: agreed.
c4chrisI thought f13 mentioned releng would forcefully rebuild the last stragglers ?
jeremyc4chris: yep, we can
c4chrissounds good
so I'd say: bump this to 100%
poelcatso this one takes care of itself?
bpepplepoelcat: yeah.
jeremyI'll throw something in andrew's direction and get him to update
tibbs"some things will need to be dropped..."
c4chrisjeremy: sounds good :)
poelcattibbs: yep ... lol
tibbsThese need to get dropped, like, last week.
dgilmoreEclispe looks like its nearly there
jeremyI think that actually the things needing to be dropped have been
as there have been a number of such requests to rel-eng
poelcatjeremy: if you could check w/ him that would be great; i sent mail yesterday but haven't heard from him
* warren is helping dcbw to figure out all the NetworkManager problems, so he might be a bit non-responsive here.
bpeppleI think this is another one where the page just needs to be updated.
bpeppleI can contact hughsie if you'd like.
jeremyyeah.  would be good to also get a new hal-info snapshot
dgilmorejeremy: please do
dgilmoregahh bpepple
* jeremy throws something in davidz's direction
* poelcat states the obvious
caillonfists are usually effective
dgilmoreNM is kinda mess right now
warrenYes, very broken, but we're working on it.
caillonas we speak even
warrenNot much to say here, working.
poelcatwarren: is there an ETA?
tibbsWe would slip the release for NM, wouldn't we?
dgilmorewhat date should we say  you need to drop back to the 0.6.x series if things are not satisfactory
poelcatdgilmore: a week ago
caillondoes FESCo make that call?
dgilmorecaillon: i think FESCo does
nottingit works for me generally
bpepplecaillon: yeah, I think we should.
c4chrisnotting: "it" being NM ?
dgilmoreknetworkmanage unfortunatly probably wont be ready by F-8 time
nottingc4chris: yes
caillondgilmore: what do you want for F8?
dgilmorecaillon: i want a NM that works.
caillonyou're throwing out "ready" and "not satisfactory" but no clear explanation of what doesn't work.
it works for notting, and me, and a bunch of others.
is there a bug filed that needs addressing?
poelcatcaillon: is it "feature complete"?
dgilmorecaillon: i need to update to rawhide  but from the threads on the lists and looking at knetworkmanager  its aways off
caillonpoelcat: we can adjust the feature page to make it 100% :)
jeremyso, I don't like where we are today with NM.  but at the same time, we had this discussion before the test3 freeze and said we were going to go with it.  backing down from that now is just going to mean we trade for a different set of bugs
dgilmorecaillon: knetworkmanager is not ported to the new api yet
poelcatcaillon: please do :) :)
bpepplejeremy: agreed.
dgilmorejeremy: would we hold up release to make things right?
caillondgilmore: so we should fix that.  since we're not doing kde4, the kde sig might have some extra cycles to help fix this?
* nirik sees 71 NM bugs for f8t1 f8t2 and devel open.
jeremydgilmore: some bugs, yes.  others, no.  just like all bugs
caillonwhich means nothing.  they could be dupes and/or filed against devel from ages ago that nobody closed
dgilmorecaillon: ill see if i can get some of the KDE sig to help me
nirikonly 3 of those are for f8t1 and f8t2 tho I guess.
caillon: agreed. The 3 f8test ones are the interesting ones.
c4chriswill people simply upgrading from F-7 be bitten by those bugs ?
warrenDefinite screams of REGRESSION coming
c4chrisor do they need to somehow enable NM before they get bitten ?
caillonI think the idea is for NM to be on-by-default
* nirik guesses we have made our decision already and we just try and get NM as happy as possible before release.
nottingc4chris: if you're not using NM, you are not affected
bpepplecaillon: I thought that was only on the livecd?
dgilmorejeremy: should we put something in nm-applet to handle people updating that were using knetworkmanager
jeremycaillon: NM is only on by default for live images
caillonbpepple: oh right
nirikcaillon: I hope not. My understanding is that was dropped... (although it's on for the live images)
dgilmoreor should we put out a knetworkmanager that makes the switch   that we can update and switch back when things are fixed?
c4chrisso I think we should just proceed as planned, try not to hold the release, and advertise the remaining problems as best as possible
jeremydgilmore: we can definitely make something happen
dgilmore: we can figure out what as a side conversation
dgilmorejeremy: ok
notting/usr/bin/knetworkmanager: #!/bin/bash exec nm-applet
caillonand we are.  we have gone from 1 person sorta not really working on it, to 2 people working full time and 3 or 4 sorta working on it.
jeremynotting: also have to spawn gnome-keyring, but yeah
nottingjeremy: ew. seperate setting storage
nirikok, shall we move on? with the assumption that the wiki will be updated to show 100% of whats going to be the features for f8?
jeremynirik: sounds good to me
caillonnotting: ++
c4chrisnirik: sounds good to me too
caillonalthough we want nm-applet --sm-disable i think
but yeah
poelcatnirik: +1
jeremyjust talked with danpb
jeremysecure virt migration is dropped.  there's a tiny patch needed for the rest which he'll have in by the beginning of the week and then is going to be writing lots of docs
c4chrisso we have 100% then?
jeremywe'll have 100% once the patch is in.  like 95% now
poelcatjeremy: if it is "dropped" then the page should be moved to F9
jeremypoelcat: a part of what's there is dropped, not the whole thing
c4chrisyeah just the migration part is dropped
nirikthen it should be updated to show whats the shipping feature.
poelcatjeremy: gotcha... can you encourage him to update the page?
jeremypoelcat: I think I'm just going to do so based on the discussion I had with him
poelcat: so that he can work on the docs instead :)
poelcatthe Feature Wrangler rests
bpepplepoelcat: thanks.
dgilmorethanks poelcat
poelcatthanks everyone!
nirikthanks poelcat
bpeppleok, we can move on....
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora
* warren is focused on NM and mirrormanager ATM.
bpepplethere wasn't anything else on the schedule, so is there anything people want to discuss.
dgilmorewe wont have any secondary arch releases at F-8 time
tibbsWell, the review queue is finally starting to shrink.
spot(in case that wasn't obvious by now)
belegdolsvn kdenetworkmanager works with NM 0.7 IIRC
nottingdgilmore: how goes the infra work?
dgilmorebut i am envisioning that we will see aplha, sparc, ia64 and arm  with 4-6 weeks after
* spot is still pushing hard to get sparc64 done
dgilmorenotting: its going pretty well i have started  to work with ia64 guys to setup koji for them
belegdolas per   KDE Commit-Digest for 30th September 2007
dgilmorespots doing what we need for sparc.  i need to follow up with the aplha and arm guys again
belegdol KNetworkManager is ported to work with NetworkManager 0.7.
dgilmorebelegdol: it does not work
well, not ok
nottingdgilmore: do we have any testing that once they're up to speed the arches can keep up?
* tibbs afk
nirikwhen is the voting for f8 name over?
dgilmorenotting: not enough testing yet
* nirik tried to look, but already voted, so it doesn't show the voting page anymore.
dgilmorenotting: i am very confident that they can
c4chrishmm, I see "compat policy" and "Fesco proposal template" on the schedule email
dgilmorethere has been a handful of arch specific packges go through review so far
jimanirik: i don't think it says anyway.
nottingnirik: check the original mail?
dgilmorenamely bootkoaders for alpha and sparc
niriktrying to find it.
jimadgilmore: did aboot go through?
dgilmorejima: i think so
at least its in queue and had comments
c4chrisjima: the review was approved, if that's what you are asking
dgilmoreyep aboot is in
jimac4chris: yes, i just verified the package exists. cool.
caillonnirik: voting for the name started?
* jima is one of, what? two alpha users?
jimacaillon: quite a while ago.
nottingdgilmore: i don't see milo. do we not support arc?
cailloni must have missed the mail
bpepplec4chris: those are ongoing items that I kept on the schedule.  I don't really expect jeremy or f13 to have time for the atm.
jimacaillon: yes, it went to fedora-announce only iirc (which annoyed me as well).
* jima missed it, but heard people talking
* c4chris has an ES45, somewhere, powered off...
nirikyou have until tomorrow to vote. ;)
caillondoes anyone who can actually vote read fedora-announce?
jimacaillon: funny, i said about the same thing.
bpepplecaillon: I do, but I might be in the minority.
jimaalas, there are some people who can vote who don't read fedora-devel-announce
(art, docs, ambassadors, etc)
dgilmorenotting: if someone wants to support it they could.  aboot is what the alpha guys submitted so far
jimasparc team managed to get some packages approved, too. god only knows how.
warrenBTW, any objections to cvsextras renaming to 'packager' at the time of CVS branching?  Since package building is disabled at that time, we might as well do both.  Fedora Infrastructure is already signed on to the plan.
nottingwarren: only in the sense that i don't want to be the one doing it
c4chriswarren: will we notice any change from a packager POW ?
warrennotting, Toshio already volunteered.
c4chris, nope
caillonthis is the engineering comittee, not the infra team.  let infra take care of it.  if they say it's good, it's good.  :)
bpeppleI don't really have a problem with it.
warrenJust FYIing
c4chrisfine with me
nottingdgilmore: gotta support those multias. and jensen!
bpeppleanything else? or should we wrap up for this week?
|DrJef|caillon, i dont 'read' my mail... i need a fedora news ticker on my desktop panel that scrolls annoucement headlines at me
caillon|DrJef|: heh
* bpepple will end the meeting in 60
jimacaillon: infra's already involved, he just wanted it signed off on. :)
* caillon abstains from voting for f8 name. sigh.
caillonthe choices are lose
dgilmorenotting: the alpha guys support only what they have access to AFAIK
* bpepple will end the meeting in 30
bpepple will end the meeting in 15
* warren disconnects to test more NM
nirikcaillon: yeah, we need to get more choices for f9.
bpepple-- MARK -- Meeting End
jimathe choices are what legal didn't think we'd get sued over. :|
nottingdgilmore: somehow i think they'll balk even if someone offers to send them a jensen
bpepplethanks, everyone!
dgilmorenotting: possible
jimanotting: what, pray tell, is a jensen?
dgilmorenotting: we are not going to support sparc32
dgilmoreonly sparc64 hardware
caillonjima: yeah i know, but still lose.
jimayeah, there's no sparc32 upstream maintainer for the kernel.
c4chrisbpepple: thanks
jimacaillon: we need to offer up more ideas for f9, i think.

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