| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process | ||
| bpepple | FESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, caillon, c4chris, dgilmore, dwmw2, f13, jeremy, jwb, notting, spot, nirik, tibbs, warren | |
|---|---|---|
| Hi everybody; who's around? | ||
| * tibbs here | ||
| nirik is here. | ||
| spot is here, f13 is on vacation | ||
| jeremy is here | ||
| * warren here | ||
| * poelcat here | ||
| bpepple | ok, let's get started. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Any objection to this week's report from FPC at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-October/msg00081.html | ||
| bpepple | I believe FPC had a proposal regard tetext. | |
| tibbs | It's spot's proposal to switch to using "tex-" as a prefix for TeX packages instead of the current "tetex-" | |
| * nirik doesn't have any objections. | ||
| bpepple | tibbs: right. seems fairly straight-forward. | |
| caillon | ditto | |
| * spot vehemently disagrees. ;) | ||
| tibbs | Since we're switching from tetex to texlive it would be nice to have a tex-distro-independent prefix for tex packages. | |
| jeremy | fine by me | |
| * bpepple is fine with it also. | ||
| tibbs | Also, since FPC work is winding down, we're switching to having meetings every other week. | |
| bpepple | ok, unless anyone objects to the FPC proposal, I think we can move on. | |
| caillon | does spot count? :) | |
| tibbs | FYI, the next FPC meeting will be Oct 16. | |
| spot | caillon: i can't really oppose my own proposals. ;) | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting - Features not 100% completed - poelcat | ||
| caillon | spot: though it would have some level of awesome | |
| bpepple | poelcat: you want to lead? | |
| poelcat | I need some help updating the remaining features that are not at 100%. | |
| With "feature freeze" way long ago and F8T3 out today I think we need to punt remaining feature development to F9 and focus on stabilizing F8 | ||
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/FeatureList | ||
| * jeremy waits for the wiki to load... | ||
| nirik | so do we want to go thru each in turn? | |
| * c4chris is here now, sorry to be late | ||
| bpepple | poelcat: looking at a few of the ones not at 100%, it looks to me like the owner just haven't updated the status possibly. | |
| poelcat | bpepple: right; i pinged them, but didn't get a response | |
| bpepple | poelcat: maybe we need to get a bigger stick and poke them. ;) | |
| poelcat | bpepple: i'm open to any ideas :) | |
| poelcat | do we want to go 1x1 or what do people prefer? | |
| tibbs | Some of these don't have to be at 100%; laptop support can continue to improve. | |
| bpepple | poelcat: I'm fine with going 1x1. | |
| jeremy | looking over them, I think that yeah, it's mostly a matter of beating people into updating | |
| nirik | on buildid, f13 was going to make a new list of needed rebuilds... not sure how many are left. | |
| poelcat | tibbs: i disagree. i think all of the features shouldbe written in such a way that you can tell when they are done and what to test | |
| c4chris | so we are talking about the 5 that are not at 100%, right? | |
| poelcat | c4chris: yes | |
| c4chris | k | |
| poelcat | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBuildId | |
| * dgilmore is here now | ||
| c4chris | what's the missing 5% here? | |
| nirik | might be some lingering packages that need a rebuild. | |
| poelcat | c4chris: welcome to my world :) | |
| bpepple | nirik: yeah, we probably need the list that f13 was creating to know what's needed to complete this. | |
| nirik | yep. | |
| jeremy | but with the list, should be pretty straight-forward to knock out | |
| bpepple | jeremy: agreed. | |
| c4chris | I thought f13 mentioned releng would forcefully rebuild the last stragglers ? | |
| jeremy | c4chris: yep, we can | |
| c4chris | sounds good | |
| so I'd say: bump this to 100% | ||
| poelcat | so this one takes care of itself? | |
| bpepple | poelcat: yeah. | |
| poelcat | thanks | |
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FeatureEclipse33 | ||
| jeremy | I'll throw something in andrew's direction and get him to update | |
| tibbs | "some things will need to be dropped..." | |
| c4chris | jeremy: sounds good :) | |
| poelcat | tibbs: yep ... lol | |
| tibbs | These need to get dropped, like, last week. | |
| dgilmore | Eclispe looks like its nearly there | |
| jeremy | I think that actually the things needing to be dropped have been | |
| as there have been a number of such requests to rel-eng | ||
| poelcat | jeremy: if you could check w/ him that would be great; i sent mail yesterday but haven't heard from him | |
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureLaptopImprovements | ||
| * warren is helping dcbw to figure out all the NetworkManager problems, so he might be a bit non-responsive here. | ||
| bpepple | I think this is another one where the page just needs to be updated. | |
| bpepple | I can contact hughsie if you'd like. | |
| jeremy | yeah. would be good to also get a new hal-info snapshot | |
| dgilmore | jeremy: please do | |
| dgilmore | gahh bpepple | |
| * jeremy throws something in davidz's direction | ||
| poelcat | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNetworkManager | |
| * poelcat states the obvious | ||
| caillon | fists are usually effective | |
| dgilmore | NM is kinda mess right now | |
| warren | Yes, very broken, but we're working on it. | |
| caillon | as we speak even | |
| warren | Not much to say here, working. | |
| poelcat | warren: is there an ETA? | |
| tibbs | We would slip the release for NM, wouldn't we? | |
| dgilmore | what date should we say you need to drop back to the 0.6.x series if things are not satisfactory | |
| poelcat | dgilmore: a week ago | |
| caillon | does FESCo make that call? | |
| dgilmore | caillon: i think FESCo does | |
| notting | it works for me generally | |
| bpepple | caillon: yeah, I think we should. | |
| c4chris | notting: "it" being NM ? | |
| dgilmore | knetworkmanage unfortunatly probably wont be ready by F-8 time | |
| notting | c4chris: yes | |
| caillon | dgilmore: what do you want for F8? | |
| dgilmore | caillon: i want a NM that works. | |
| caillon | you're throwing out "ready" and "not satisfactory" but no clear explanation of what doesn't work. | |
| it works for notting, and me, and a bunch of others. | ||
| is there a bug filed that needs addressing? | ||
| poelcat | caillon: is it "feature complete"? | |
| dgilmore | caillon: i need to update to rawhide but from the threads on the lists and looking at knetworkmanager its aways off | |
| caillon | poelcat: we can adjust the feature page to make it 100% :) | |
| jeremy | so, I don't like where we are today with NM. but at the same time, we had this discussion before the test3 freeze and said we were going to go with it. backing down from that now is just going to mean we trade for a different set of bugs | |
| dgilmore | caillon: knetworkmanager is not ported to the new api yet | |
| poelcat | caillon: please do :) :) | |
| bpepple | jeremy: agreed. | |
| dgilmore | jeremy: would we hold up release to make things right? | |
| caillon | dgilmore: so we should fix that. since we're not doing kde4, the kde sig might have some extra cycles to help fix this? | |
| * nirik sees 71 NM bugs for f8t1 f8t2 and devel open. | ||
| jeremy | dgilmore: some bugs, yes. others, no. just like all bugs | |
| caillon | which means nothing. they could be dupes and/or filed against devel from ages ago that nobody closed | |
| dgilmore | caillon: ill see if i can get some of the KDE sig to help me | |
| nirik | only 3 of those are for f8t1 and f8t2 tho I guess. | |
| caillon: agreed. The 3 f8test ones are the interesting ones. | ||
| c4chris | will people simply upgrading from F-7 be bitten by those bugs ? | |
| warren | Definite screams of REGRESSION coming | |
| c4chris | or do they need to somehow enable NM before they get bitten ? | |
| caillon | I think the idea is for NM to be on-by-default | |
| * nirik guesses we have made our decision already and we just try and get NM as happy as possible before release. | ||
| notting | c4chris: if you're not using NM, you are not affected | |
| bpepple | caillon: I thought that was only on the livecd? | |
| dgilmore | jeremy: should we put something in nm-applet to handle people updating that were using knetworkmanager | |
| jeremy | caillon: NM is only on by default for live images | |
| caillon | bpepple: oh right | |
| nirik | caillon: I hope not. My understanding is that was dropped... (although it's on for the live images) | |
| dgilmore | or should we put out a knetworkmanager that makes the switch that we can update and switch back when things are fixed? | |
| c4chris | so I think we should just proceed as planned, try not to hold the release, and advertise the remaining problems as best as possible | |
| jeremy | dgilmore: we can definitely make something happen | |
| dgilmore: we can figure out what as a side conversation | ||
| dgilmore | jeremy: ok | |
| notting | /usr/bin/knetworkmanager: #!/bin/bash exec nm-applet | |
| caillon | and we are. we have gone from 1 person sorta not really working on it, to 2 people working full time and 3 or 4 sorta working on it. | |
| jeremy | notting: also have to spawn gnome-keyring, but yeah | |
| notting | jeremy: ew. seperate setting storage | |
| nirik | ok, shall we move on? with the assumption that the wiki will be updated to show 100% of whats going to be the features for f8? | |
| jeremy | nirik: sounds good to me | |
| caillon | notting: ++ | |
| c4chris | nirik: sounds good to me too | |
| caillon | although we want nm-applet --sm-disable i think | |
| but yeah | ||
| poelcat | nirik: +1 | |
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureVirtSecurity | ||
| jeremy | just talked with danpb | |
| jeremy | secure virt migration is dropped. there's a tiny patch needed for the rest which he'll have in by the beginning of the week and then is going to be writing lots of docs | |
| c4chris | so we have 100% then? | |
| jeremy | we'll have 100% once the patch is in. like 95% now | |
| c4chris | cool | |
| poelcat | jeremy: if it is "dropped" then the page should be moved to F9 | |
| jeremy | poelcat: a part of what's there is dropped, not the whole thing | |
| c4chris | yeah just the migration part is dropped | |
| nirik | then it should be updated to show whats the shipping feature. | |
| poelcat | jeremy: gotcha... can you encourage him to update the page? | |
| jeremy | poelcat: I think I'm just going to do so based on the discussion I had with him | |
| poelcat: so that he can work on the docs instead :) | ||
| poelcat | the Feature Wrangler rests | |
| bpepple | poelcat: thanks. | |
| dgilmore | thanks poelcat | |
| poelcat | thanks everyone! | |
| nirik | thanks poelcat | |
| bpepple | ok, we can move on.... | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora | ||
| * warren is focused on NM and mirrormanager ATM. | ||
| bpepple | there wasn't anything else on the schedule, so is there anything people want to discuss. | |
| dgilmore | we wont have any secondary arch releases at F-8 time | |
| tibbs | Well, the review queue is finally starting to shrink. | |
| spot | (in case that wasn't obvious by now) | |
| belegdol | svn kdenetworkmanager works with NM 0.7 IIRC | |
| notting | dgilmore: how goes the infra work? | |
| dgilmore | but i am envisioning that we will see aplha, sparc, ia64 and arm with 4-6 weeks after | |
| * spot is still pushing hard to get sparc64 done | ||
| dgilmore | notting: its going pretty well i have started to work with ia64 guys to setup koji for them | |
| belegdol | as per KDE Commit-Digest for 30th September 2007 | |
| dgilmore | spots doing what we need for sparc. i need to follow up with the aplha and arm guys again | |
| belegdol | KNetworkManager is ported to work with NetworkManager 0.7. | |
| dgilmore | belegdol: it does not work | |
| belegdol | ah | |
| ok | ||
| well, not ok | ||
| notting | dgilmore: do we have any testing that once they're up to speed the arches can keep up? | |
| * tibbs afk | ||
| nirik | when is the voting for f8 name over? | |
| dgilmore | notting: not enough testing yet | |
| * nirik tried to look, but already voted, so it doesn't show the voting page anymore. | ||
| dgilmore | notting: i am very confident that they can | |
| c4chris | hmm, I see "compat policy" and "Fesco proposal template" on the schedule email | |
| dgilmore | there has been a handful of arch specific packges go through review so far | |
| jima | nirik: i don't think it says anyway. | |
| notting | nirik: check the original mail? | |
| dgilmore | namely bootkoaders for alpha and sparc | |
| nirik | trying to find it. | |
| dgilmore | bootloaders | |
| jima | dgilmore: did aboot go through? | |
| dgilmore | jima: i think so | |
| at least its in queue and had comments | ||
| c4chris | jima: the review was approved, if that's what you are asking | |
| dgilmore | yep aboot is in | |
| jima | c4chris: yes, i just verified the package exists. cool. | |
| caillon | nirik: voting for the name started? | |
| * jima is one of, what? two alpha users? | ||
| jima | caillon: quite a while ago. | |
| notting | dgilmore: i don't see milo. do we not support arc? | |
| caillon | i must have missed the mail | |
| bpepple | c4chris: those are ongoing items that I kept on the schedule. I don't really expect jeremy or f13 to have time for the atm. | |
| jima | caillon: yes, it went to fedora-announce only iirc (which annoyed me as well). | |
| * jima missed it, but heard people talking | ||
| nirik | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue103?action=show&redirect=FWN%2FLatestIssue#head-fa251e60936e33a6821be36a8cdc15bd57e5a122 | |
| * c4chris has an ES45, somewhere, powered off... | ||
| nirik | you have until tomorrow to vote. ;) | |
| caillon | does anyone who can actually vote read fedora-announce? | |
| jima | caillon: funny, i said about the same thing. | |
| bpepple | caillon: I do, but I might be in the minority. | |
| jima | alas, there are some people who can vote who don't read fedora-devel-announce | |
| (art, docs, ambassadors, etc) | ||
| dgilmore | notting: if someone wants to support it they could. aboot is what the alpha guys submitted so far | |
| jima | sparc team managed to get some packages approved, too. god only knows how. | |
| warren | BTW, any objections to cvsextras renaming to 'packager' at the time of CVS branching? Since package building is disabled at that time, we might as well do both. Fedora Infrastructure is already signed on to the plan. | |
| notting | warren: only in the sense that i don't want to be the one doing it | |
| c4chris | warren: will we notice any change from a packager POW ? | |
| warren | notting, Toshio already volunteered. | |
| c4chris, nope | ||
| caillon | this is the engineering comittee, not the infra team. let infra take care of it. if they say it's good, it's good. :) | |
| bpepple | I don't really have a problem with it. | |
| warren | Just FYIing | |
| c4chris | fine with me | |
| notting | dgilmore: gotta support those multias. and jensen! | |
| bpepple | anything else? or should we wrap up for this week? | |
| |DrJef| | caillon, i dont 'read' my mail... i need a fedora news ticker on my desktop panel that scrolls annoucement headlines at me | |
| c4chris | wrap++ | |
| caillon | |DrJef|: heh | |
| * bpepple will end the meeting in 60 | ||
| jima | caillon: infra's already involved, he just wanted it signed off on. :) | |
| * caillon abstains from voting for f8 name. sigh. | ||
| caillon | the choices are lose | |
| dgilmore | notting: the alpha guys support only what they have access to AFAIK | |
| * bpepple will end the meeting in 30 | ||
| bpepple will end the meeting in 15 | ||
| * warren disconnects to test more NM | ||
| nirik | caillon: yeah, we need to get more choices for f9. | |
| bpepple | -- MARK -- Meeting End | |
| jima | the choices are what legal didn't think we'd get sued over. :| | |
| notting | dgilmore: somehow i think they'll balk even if someone offers to send them a jensen | |
| bpepple | thanks, everyone! | |
| dgilmore | notting: possible | |
| jima | notting: what, pray tell, is a jensen? | |
| dgilmore | notting: we are not going to support sparc32 | |
| dgilmore | only sparc64 hardware | |
| caillon | jima: yeah i know, but still lose. | |
| jima | yeah, there's no sparc32 upstream maintainer for the kernel. | |
| c4chris | bpepple: thanks | |
| jima | caillon: we need to offer up more ideas for f9, i think. | |
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