| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process | ||
| * tibbs here | ||
| poelcat | bpepple: i might not be able to be here for the feature portion | |
|---|---|---|
| bpepple | that's ok. Is the Feature Dashboard current? | |
| poelcat | bpepple: yes :) please go through the "ready for approval" section | |
| bpepple | poelcat: cool. should be no problem then. | |
| poelcat | i've got to check in at the Fedora booth... if they have enough coverage, i'll try to find access | |
| there is no (free) wireless coverage on the exhibit floor at OSCON | ||
| bpepple | :( | |
| * poelcat biab | ||
| bpepple | FESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, caillon, c4chris, dgilmore, dwmw2, f13, jeremy, jwb, notting, spot, nirik, tibbs, warren | |
| * spot is here | ||
| dwmw2 | fish | |
| bpepple | Hi everyone, who's around? | |
| * notting is here | ||
| caillon | ... | |
| * jeremy is here | ||
| rdieter | here. | |
| * warren here | ||
| rdieter | oops, goes to sit in rabble seats now... :) | |
| * rdieter shares popcorn with knurd | ||
| knurd busy fixing deps in EPEL | ||
| knurd can need popcorn for that | ||
| bpepple | ok, let's get started... | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCO-Meeting -- MISC -- elect FESCo Chair - all | ||
| bpepple | Is anyone interested in being in chair besides jwb and me? | |
| * spot drops a pin | ||
| dwmw2 takes that as a 'no' :) | ||
| caillon doesn't want to be sat on, so no | ||
| bpepple | ok, then let's do a quick vote. either 'jwb' or 'bpepple'. | |
| * c4chris here | ||
| tibbs | When you ask for volunteers to stand in front of the firing squad, you don't usually get many. | |
| c4chris | bpepple: +1 | |
| caillon | (abstain) | |
| tibbs | bpepple: +1 | |
| spot | bpepple (nothing against jwb, but I'm inclined to let the current dictator continue) | |
| f13 | Im here. | |
| dwmw2 | yeah, likewise. bpepple +1 | |
| * wwoods lurks | ||
| jeremy | bpepple: +1 | |
| f13 | bpepple: +1 just for he's been doing a good job, and jwb_gone didn't really sound like he /wanted/ the job, just that he'd do th ejob. | |
| notting | bpepple +1 | |
| c4chris | f13: yup, that was my impression too | |
| bpepple | ok, that looks like seven '+1' for me, so it looks like I'll be the chair. | |
| ok, next item.... | ||
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCO-Meeting -- MISC -- Feature Proposal Approval - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Dashboard - notting, poelcat | ||
| bpepple | poelcat said he probably won't be here for this part, so I'll go ahead and lead this. | |
| First item that needs our approval is: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBuildId | ||
| tibbs | Didn't we approve many of the "ready for approval" items? | |
| notting | tibbs: these are new ones | |
| afaik | ||
| poelcat | bpepple: i'm back | |
| bpepple | notting: correct, these are new ones. | |
| caillon | so before we do this, i'd like to know what we're trying to vote on. are we going to tell people to stop doing work, for example if we vote no? | |
| bpepple | poelcat: great, I'll let you lead on this then. ;) | |
| caillon | what does voting mean | |
| tibbs | I'm somewhat confused about FeatureBuildId. | |
| dwmw2 | yeah, I'm a little confused how this correlates with the use of F8Target for RFE bugs. Normally, the rule has sort of been "get it working in time and it gets in". | |
| poelcat | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Features/NodokaTheme | |
| no response from art-list | ||
| f13 | caillon: AFAIk a vote no is usually attached with a reason, as in "your plan sucks" or "please don't do this feature" or "not this release" | |
| warren | looks like it would require a mass rebuild | |
| tibbs | A mass rebuild wouldn't be a terrible thing. | |
| dwmw2 | are we going to start with the Nodoka Theme? | |
| f13 | caillon: depending on the reason is what we would tell the developers. It could be 'revise your plan a bit and try again' or it could be 'try for next release' or it could be 'that's not legal dude, no way' | |
| dwmw2 | or was that it? :) | |
| tibbs | But when Roland asked some questions in fedora-packaging about this, he presented it as a fait accompli. | |
| f13 | warren: I'm not afraid of a mass rebuild, so long as it's for something like this. | |
| poelcat | caillon: it is all here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy#head-03985d7eeb69f08288d3116d96f3d4512ac3556b | |
| * warren notices that we opted not to go with gcc-4.2 yet | ||
| f13 | poelcat: if we haven't gotten a response from art-list, perhaps we need to ping them again and tellthem this is their last chance for input on the matter. | |
| dwmw2 | warren: we probably don't have time for that kind of fun if we want F8 out so soon. | |
| bpepple | f13: yeah, we should contact Marin since I believe she leads the art team. | |
| jeremy | I can take the lead on doing so | |
| * poelcat will contact marin | ||
| jeremy | she's back from guadec now so in the office | |
| caillon | and if we say no, and someone does it anyway what recourse do we have? | |
| tibbs | I thought we were discussing FeatureBuildID. | |
| warren | dwmw2, yeah, breaks C++ ABI for the first time since 3.3.x or so | |
| f13 | and on the bus most days, so able to get attention from. | |
| bpepple | speak of the devil. there's mizmo. | |
| caillon | (i also think it would be useful to spend some time with welcome to the new guys, and explaining some things) | |
| f13 | caillon: untag builds, block contributor access | |
| * mizmo holds out pitchfork | ||
| c4chris | I see no real problem with FeatureBuildID, so +1 | |
| notting | mizmo: fesco would like to confirm that nodoka is the art team's plan for f8 | |
| mizmo: along with echo | ||
| mizmo: see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Features/NodokaTheme | ||
| mizmo | notting: while efforts are being made towards echo, i dont think there are many on the art team who realistically think it will be ready for f8, especially with the shortened timeframe | |
| notting: we are pretty stretched timewise just for the basics like wallpaper, gdm, etc | ||
| f13 | mizmo: are the owners of this feature on the art team? | |
| mizmo | notting: nodoka is definitely being planned to be released in time for f8, but of course we have no authority to make any decision about it being default | |
| notting | you don't? | |
| mizmo | f13: which? nodoka or echo? | |
| f13 | I'm a bit confused as to why owners would be trying to drive something that the team doesn't thin kwill happen. | |
| mizmo | notting: no, it's the same story as f7. | |
| f13 | mizmo: well, both really. Doesn't nodoka depend on echo? | |
| mizmo | f13: what do you mean by owner? | |
| f13 | Name: DanielGeiger, MartinSourada | |
| mizmo: every proposed feature has an owner, the person responsible for making it happena nd reporting status and all that | ||
| mizmo | f13: while the visual style of nodoka was designed with complementing echo in mind, i don't see any reason why nodoka couldn't be used with mist | |
| f13 | ok. | |
| mizmo | f13: martni sourada is, i'm not 100% sure about daniel geiger (At least in terms of being on the art team accordnig to the account system) | |
| f13: echo is being driven by luya rather than martin or daniel | ||
| f13 | mizmo: if these guys go forward with nodoka does that conflict with any Fedora Art plans? | |
| (putting aside which icon set it'd use for the moment) | ||
| mizmo | f13: nope, it doesn't | |
| f13: i think they've been doing great work | ||
| f13 | ok, that's good for me. | |
| mizmo | f13: were there any specific concerns about it? just the echo <=> nodoka relationship? | |
| notting | mizmo: mainly just making sure that nodoka was part of the art team's plan | |
| mizmo | ah okay cool | |
| bpepple | mizmo: we just wanted to make sure that the art team was ok with if becoming the default theme. | |
| f13 | mizmo: we don't want another tear with the Art team. | |
| all together now! | ||
| mizmo | ah okay. well we haven't actually discussed it being default since we've pretty much unhappily resigned to the fact we have no authority over defaults. if there was any possibility of us having that, i think folks on the team would probably want to test it out and give it a final look over before it was officially sanctioned as the default (does that make sense?) | |
| wwoods | "no authority over defaults"? who does hold that authority, if not the art team? | |
| mizmo | wwoods: desktop team | |
| caillon | mizmo: i think the relevant engineering teams (desktop in this case) would be happy to do the engineering work to make it happen if there is a clear plan that is agreed upon | |
| * spot thinks it makes sense to let the Fedora art team have that authority | ||
| caillon | basically, the art team just needs to say "do this" authoritatively | |
| and we really have no objections there | ||
| * drago01 agrees with spot | ||
| bpepple | +1 to having the art team having the authority on themese. | |
| jeremy | +1 | |
| * abadger1999 agrees with spot... but has everyone looked over the history of the issue? | ||
| c4chris | +1 (but dunno the history) | |
| dwmw2 | I haven't, which is why I kept quiet. Are you going to enlighten us? :) | |
| mizmo | wwoods: part of the reason the f8 theming process was delayed is i kept trying to get some kind of answer about this, and i could get no guarantees from the relevant parties that we'd be given any authority. so when w estarted the f8 theming process, i wrote a note to the team letting them know there were no guarantees their hard work would end up getintg used, but i promised to try to at least get them shipped as alternatives as best | |
| i could | ||
| spot | abadger1999: i suspect it is legacy of a pre-merge Fedora. | |
| * caillon doesn't think that there is any authoritiy to be given | ||
| mizmo | i just felt really bad going ahead announcing the f8 theming process, telling people to work on something that might not get used you know | |
| spot | well, afaik, FESCo has the authority to say that. | |
| mizmo | caillon: well you can think what you want. it's not true. | |
| f13 | spot: actually I think a lot of the 'history' came from last release. | |
| spot | +1 for the art team being able to determine the art. | |
| f13 | f7 or fc6 | |
| caillon | mizmo: i don't see how anyone on desktop team can even claim that as we don't have anyone working on art. | |
| f13 | but regardless of history, I'm all for Art team having authority over themeing and such, so long as they work /with/ the Desktop teams and such, but I suspect that's a no-brainer. | |
| mizmo | caillon: whatever. | |
| wwoods | I know I'm a bit naive about the process but isn't the default theme basically set by a string in a package somewhere? So long as the theme meets some agreed-upon requirements it should be trivial to change, right? | |
| * f13 suspects that there might have been something with Diana involved. | ||
| dwmw2 | on the whole it would seem to make sense for the art team to be responsible for the art, if we're going to have an art team at all :) | |
| * mizmo is having some blood pressure issues, if you dont need me any more then ill be off | ||
| riel | dwmw2: +1 | |
| caillon | agreed | |
| warren | f13, there was a bit of drama involved back then when the desktop team asserted authority and everything blew up. We're trying to start with a clean slate now. | |
| * spot agrees with dwmw2 (how often does that happen? ;) | ||
| c4chris | dwmw2: exactly | |
| * f13 looks for a second moon | ||
| dwmw2 | spot: more often than not. It's just less fun so we remember is less vividly :) | |
| f13 | mizmo: i think that's all we need. Thanks! | |
| drago01 | mizmo: not being the default theme does not mean not used at all... what about seperate packages? | |
| bpepple | mizmo: thanks for your time. | |
| dwmw2 | spot: we'll get to kmod (spit) later, and I'll agree with f13 too :) | |
| mizmo | drago01: there are technical issues which much of the theming that makes it difficult to easily swap themes out | |
| later | ||
| mclasen | ray is working on cleaned up, split artwork packaging | |
| f13 | so back to the feature ? | |
| +1 feature. | ||
| mclasen | I hope he'll get back to that soon | |
| dwmw2 | so, since we don't have 'approval' from the art team | |
| notting | iirc, nodoka was already approved pending art team ok | |
| dwmw2 | perhaps we should give them another week to look over it with the expectation that we _will_ listen to them? | |
| f13 | notting: ah ok. | |
| warren | We need a clear and binding statement on who is accountable and has authority over art. | |
| caillon | dwmw2: sounds fine to me | |
| warren | And it isn't clear that we have the authority to make it happen. | |
| f13 | dwmw2: based on what I heard from mizmo, I don't think there is /disapproval/ which is th eimportant thing. | |
| bpepple | dwmw2: that sounds fine with me. | |
| notting | warren: fedora project board :) | |
| dwmw2 | they seem not to have understood that we were actually asking for that. | |
| abadger1999 | FESCo should probably let the Nodoka authors know that we'll go with whatever the art team decides. | |
| warren | notting, there is a lot of unstated history here | |
| * f13 read that as unsalted history | ||
| notting | warren: and... not going into that here. | |
| abadger1999 | So they can continue working. | |
| mclasen | as far as the desktop team is concerned I have stated pretty clearly on the art-list that we are not going to be involved with that for f8 | |
| * poelcat wonders if we are ready for the next feature? | ||
| spot | bpepple: perhaps we should vote on letting the art team be the authority for Fedora art, reporting to FESCo? | |
| c4chris | spot: agreed | |
| poelcat | spot: where is "the art team" defined? | |
| dwmw2 | I'm a little wary of voting on such a thing not understanding the history, when there clearly _is_ history. But I can just abstain :0 | |
| spot | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork | |
| warren | If the desktop team has said they wont be involved, then it seems that there is no opposition to art team having authority. | |
| As long as we're clear on that point, then I see no problem here. | ||
| bpepple | spot: Yeah, that sounds like a good idea to me. let's do a quick vote. | |
| warren | bpepple, what exactly are we voting on? | |
| * spot is having lag issues, i'm getting irc in chunks here | ||
| bpepple | Proposal: Art team has authority for Fedora art, and report to FESCo, | |
| spot | +1 | |
| dwmw2 | ok then, let's just state that the art team are responsible for artwork and ask them for clear approval (or otherwise) of the plan to use Nodoka for F8 | |
| tibbs | +1 | |
| bpepple | +1 | |
| c4chris | +1 | |
| warren | +1 | |
| dwmw2 | +1 | |
| f13 | +1 | |
| warren | Nodoka is a separate issue than authority | |
| notting | +1 until we get mapplethorped | |
| jeremy | +1 | |
| bpepple | ok, that's nine '+1', so that's approved. | |
| caillon | let me guess, the engineering guys do engineering. and the docs team does docs, too. /me not sure why this is a vote, but +1 | |
| dwmw2 | warren: yes, it is. But having given them authority, we should ask them to _use_ it :) | |
| bpepple | caillon: agreed, but the art team seems to think they don't have authority over the art. | |
| warren | caillon, you know clear why they feel that way. | |
| jeremy | caillon: something like that :) | |
| dwmw2 | well, now we can tell them they do. | |
| and move on to BuildID, perhaps? | ||
| bpepple | ok, we should probably move on if we plan to cover more of the features. ;) | |
| poelcat: ? | ||
| poelcat | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePresto -- need to confirmation from infrastructure team that Fedora can handle requirements; posted question to fedora-infastructure-list--no clear answer of "yes, we can do it". | |
| bpepple | poelcat: let's poke the infrastructure team some more, and get a definitive answer. | |
| c4chris | so let's skip this one? | |
| jeremy | poelcat: I think the infrastructure side isn't "we can't do them". just a matter of getting the buildsys code done in time | |
| bpepple | c4chris: +1 | |
| poelcat | bpepple: okay will leave for next time | |
| spot | mmcgrath: is infrastructure ok with Presto? | |
| poelcat | next is # | |
| next is http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBuildId | ||
| # | ||
| c4chris | +1 (looks like it's mostly in anyway) | |
| f13 | also we need some more clear ideas of what kind of space this is going ot take up, and whether or not our current netapps can handle it. | |
| wwoods | IIRC patches for buildid are already in binutils | |
| f13 | but that also depends on when garbage collection in koji lands which would give us a lot more space | |
| jeremy | there are a few packaging things which need to be verified out with BuildID, but everything is in progress | |
| f13 | I'm +1 for buildID, including a mass rebuild at some point. | |
| (to be determined) | ||
| warren | How long will a mass rebuild take? | |
| f13 | depends | |
| if rel-eng gets all BOFH about it and just scripts the crap out of it, a week or so. If we want maintainers to do it themselves, 3 months. | ||
| c4chris | we can ask mdomsch | |
| dwmw2 | +1 to buildid | |
| f13 | (a bit overblown of course) | |
| bpepple | +1 to buildid, here also. | |
| tibbs | buildid sounds OK to me, but I wonder how this is going to interact with versioned -debuginfo packages as we have them currently. | |
| warren | +1 buildid | |
| notting | +1 buildid | |
| spot | +1 | |
| dwmw2 | and to doing it automatically, then taking anyone who screams "you touched my package" out back and quietly shooting them in the head | |
| f13 | c4chris: mdomsch's numbers are just pure 'how long does it take to compile'. Not at all counting the cvs spec editing time, the fixing of borken build times, the coordination with maintainers times, koji's load times. | |
| c4chris | f13: ah, right, there's that too :) | |
| tibbs | debuginfo packages aren't parallel-installable, so what does this extra infrastructure actually help with? | |
| wwoods | BuildID provides some interesting value for Apport - it means we don't have to do any sort of depsolving to determine which debuginfo packages a given corefile/binary needs | |
| well. apport and debugging in general | ||
| bpepple | I count seven '+1', so far. anyone else want to weigh in before moving on? | |
| poelcat | Next feature for discussion is: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit | |
| tibbs | Is anyone here who is actually driving this feature? | |
| * mmcgrath here | ||
| tibbs | Sorry, I was asking about buildid. | |
| jeremy | tibbs: the buildid stuff? roland is. and I've talked with him some about it | |
| wwoods | I've talked with him about it as well | |
| poelcat | tibbs: that is the definition of a feature "owner" | |
| mmcgrath | spot: do you still need me? | |
| tibbs | Because I've not been able to get an answer to the question I asked. | |
| poelcat | each feature has a designated one | |
| hmm | ||
| spot | mmcgrath: i don't think so. | |
| jeremy | tibbs: what it gains is a much easier way of mapping from binary -> debuginfo that will be less processor intensive and that should eventually allow us to do duplicate dwarf info pruning (which will mean smaller debuginfo) and some other things like that | |
| mmcgrath | spot: k | |
| f13 | still no contengency plan | |
| * mmcgrath goes back to lunch :) | ||
| tibbs | Gah, it's pointless to try and discuss these things on IRC. | |
| caillon | i'm not sure what we're talking about now anyway | |
| jeremy | tibbs: difficult at least, yes :) | |
| dwmw2 | caillon: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBuildId | |
| f13 | poelcat: this one still seems to be missing the end user impact section as well. | |
| dwmw2 | caillon: oh, I lied. sorry. | |
| f13 | dwmw2: we moved on from that, we're now no Policy Kit | |
| notting | +1 on policykit from me | |
| caillon | oh | |
| bpepple | some of the policykit items are still in package review aren't they? | |
| wwoods | (jeremy: can you ping roland to get some answers for tibbs and fleshing out the missing sections? is he in "boston"?) | |
| notting | bpepple: yes | |
| f13 | looking at the feature page I'm finding it hard to figure out how this is differnet than say consolehelper | |
| tibbs | I like the idea of policykit, but is it close enough to being done? | |
| f13 | (and yes, I'm being a bit 'difficult' here) | |
| notting | f13: it's intended to replace it. | |
| dwmw2 | f13: see also http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureRemovePAMConsole :) | |
| mclasen | policykit made a big jump forward yesterday, with david releasing a new version | |
| jeremy | tibbs: well, as hal is about to be depending on it, we don't have a whole lot of choice :-/ | |
| tibbs | Erm, then why are we even talking about it? | |
| bpepple | +1 on policykit. | |
| dwmw2 | +1 | |
| caillon | tibbs: i wondered about some of these things earlier (not sure why we need to vote on things like this) | |
| +1 though | ||
| dwmw2 | are we getting hal 0.5.10 for f8 then? There were other things bluetooth-related which were waiting on that | |
| f13 | notting: might be worth noting that in the feature page (: | |
| mclasen | yes, we are | |
| c4chris | +1 policykit | |
| f13 | +1 | |
| dwmw2 | caillon: yeah, this sounds like one of the cases where they should just get on with it | |
| notting | f13: it's picemeal. it's not going to replace it all at first drop. but that's the long-term intention | |
| bpepple | dwmw2: agreed. | |
| notting | caillon: ideally, this has a 'how to fix your app to use PK' somewhere, then we publicize it as a feature to point people to how to take advantage of it | |
| wwoods | I'd love a "PolicyKit and ConsoleKit: what they do and how they differ" doc somewhere. | |
| caillon | notting: which is a different issue. but i agree that would be nice. | |
| tibbs | http://people.freedesktop.org/~david/polkit-spec.html is the closest thing, I guess. | |
| caillon | not sure if david'z already done that | |
| * spot idly wonders how PolicyKit hooks into SELinux | ||
| caillon | with teeth | |
| spot | no, thats how my cat hooks into SELinux. | |
| notting | wwoods: not a doc, but CK is for tracking who's logged in where. PK is a framework for what user X is allowed to do | |
| tibbs | It's mentioned briefly at the above URL, I guess. | |
| notting | PK can use CK as one of its criteria | |
| wwoods | notting: gotcha, thanks | |
| mclasen | CK is a utmp replacement of sorts | |
| caillon | davidz had some presentations somewhere about it, wwoods | |
| i'll see about getting him to blog about it or something | ||
| esp the newest releases | ||
| * bpepple looks at the time, and sees we only have 10 minutes left. :( | ||
| f13 | send more votes | |
| jeremy | +1 | |
| warren | +1 | |
| notting | ok, that's 8 +1 | |
| dwmw2 | I thought we had enough already | |
| poelcat | Next feature for discussion is: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureApport | |
| bpepple | +1 | |
| dwmw2 | why do we need to vote on this? It's not even doing to be installed or enabled by default | |
| jeremy | wwoods: not wanting to enable it by default? | |
| wwoods | wee! I've actually got a FESCo question for this - do I go forward with the tg-based crashdb that's separate from bugzilla, or use the rh bugzilla as the backend? | |
| spot | open source serverside code from ubuntu? *boggles* | |
| wwoods | disabled by default, yes | |
| I'd suggest that once it's more mature we have it installed and enabled by default for test releases | ||
| tibbs | You should probably avoid bugzilla. | |
| notting | wwoods: then why not target F9 with it? | |
| jeremy | wwoods: aha, okay | |
| LetoTo | wasnt bugizlla going away? | |
| caillon | wwoods: do not use bugzilla | |
| dwmw2 | +1 to Apport. Please don't make us vote on _every_ new package which isn't installed or enabled by default :) | |
| wwoods | okay - I'll need to discuss the crashdb with the infrastructure team | |
| since we need somewhere to send reports | ||
| caillon | wwoods: the mozilla guys have gotten this done right. put it in a web database like crash-stats.mozilla.org | |
| notting | if this isn't going to be a default-for-f8 thing, I say we punt it as a 'Feature' | |
| abadger1999 | wwoods: You can catch me after the meeting. | |
| f13 | dwmw2: this isn't about voting for new packages, it's about touting it as a Feature that can be advertised, blogged about, etc... | |
| wwoods | caillon: yeah, that's the intent of the crashdb. the tricky bit is making it so that a user can view their crash report, but nobody else's | |
| warren | We shouldn't vote on everything, especially non-default things. | |
| wwoods | and fedora devs can view all crash reports, especially those pertaining to stuff they own | |
| caillon | wwoods: why? that seems like too much work | |
| wwoods: let the crashes be public. maybe someone can fix it who isn't a dev | ||
| wwoods | caillon: security-sensitive stuff in core files | |
| mclasen | wwoods: do you know about similar efforts within the gnome bug team ? | |
| dwmw2 | f13: hm, ok. I'm ambivalent then. | |
| warren | Do we realistically have enough time and resources to implement this before F8? | |
| c4chris | notting: agreed | |
| wwoods | warren: it's nearly all the way there, and it's not intended to be enabled by default | |
| f13 | I'm with notting here, lets not do this as a Feature yet. lets do it as a Feature when we enble it by default, as /that/ is feature worthy | |
| wwoods | sounds reasonable | |
| jeremy | agreed | |
| warren | -1 Not for a F8 feature, but you may get it working at any time before or after | |
| f13 | -1 | |
| notting | -1 | |
| dwmw2 | -1 what f13/notting said | |
| notting | actually, if the *owner* says not-f8, i don't think we need to vote | |
| wwoods | nope | |
| * poelcat moves to CategoryProposedFeature | ||
| wwoods | will propose it as a F9 feature once everything's in place | |
| bpepple | sounds good. | |
| * c4chris will need to run RSN | ||
| dwmw2 | ok, tickless? Why vote on that? We already did it for i386. We'll do it for x86_64 and PowerPC when they're ready. | |
| didn't we _already_ make noise about tickless? | ||
| poelcat | Next feature for discussion is: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureTicklessKernel | |
| jeremy | dwmw2: yes, but we can make more noise! | |
| dwmw2 | heh | |
| f13 | dwmw2: because we broke it for i386? | |
| dwmw2 | oh, did we? | |
| drago01 | f13: ? | |
| notting | also, i'd like it tracked so that we know by feature freeze whether it's in or out | |
| b/c i don't want to change it after freeze | ||
| f13 | dwmw2: I'd want some watch over to make sure that we get this in by test2 and not late in the game where it can break again. | |
| notting | +1 tickless from mee | |
| f13 | dwmw2: the fiasco of things like dells not booting with f7, thank tickless (and a dell bug, but nontheless) | |
| dwmw2 | ah. | |
| f13 | dwmw2: it also played havoc with the wireless drivers. | |
| bpepple | +1, seems like a no-brainer. | |
| dwmw2 | +1 if it works, -1 if it doesn't. I punt to davej/cebbert | |
| they'll do the right thing | ||
| c4chris | +1 | |
| notting | f13: bah. with wireless any further breakage is just noise | |
| dwmw2 | and I'll hopefully get powerpc done too some time soon :) | |
| f13 | yeah, I'm +1 for it, but to be tracked not just a surprise (: | |
| dwmw2: I made my ppc tickless. I turned it off. | ||
| dwmw2 | heh | |
| bpepple | hmm, we're out of time, and I believe the rel-eng was planning to have a meeting immediately after us. | |
| notting | shall we run through the rest of these on the mailing list? | |
| caillon | and i've got a meeting with the networkmanager guys | |
| f13 | oh crap, I forgot about that. | |
| go me! | ||
| bpepple | notting: +1 | |
| dwmw2 | we punting the kmod thing too then? Would be good to get davej/cebbert to opine on that anyway | |
| c4chris | notting: +1 | |
| abadger1999 | notting: +1 | |
| c4chris | dwmw2: agreed | |
| bpepple | dwmw2: yeah, let's do that on the mailing list, too. | |
| notting | actually, which list? | |
| poelcat | Next feature for discussion is: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFixWakeups | |
| bpepple | features on the fesco-list. | |
| notting | fesco or -devel? | |
| bpepple | just to keep the noise to a minimum. | |
| notting | poelcat: you want to send the mails, or i can if you're drowned on the show floor | |
| abadger1999 | ...except there's nothing private about it.... | |
| poelcat | notting: please :) | |
| latency is hhigh too | ||
| * c4chris bolts cya all later | ||
| bpepple | later c4chris | |
| anything else? or should we let the rel-eng start their meeting? | ||
| dwmw2_gone | let them start | |
| bpepple | -- MARK -- Meeting End | |
| thanks everyone. | ||
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