FESCo-2008-10-22

--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process
bpeppleFESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, dgilmore, dwmw2, jwb, notting, nirik, kick_, jds2001, j-rod
Hi everybody; who's around?
dwmw2fish
* notting is here
Kick_ is here
* j-rod here, mostly
* bpepple waits another minute or so to see who else shows up.
bpeppleok, we can probably get started.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- sponsor nominations -- Andreas Thienemann (ixs)
bpeppleFirst up, we've got a request to make ixs a sponsor.
nirik gave a +1 to the nomination on the mailing list.
dwmw2+1
Kick_+1 from me as well
bpepple+1 to ixs
j-rodI share a tiny bit of ralf's concern over occasional slow response, but I completely understand the lack of free time thing
ubertibbsFor the record, I recall significant problems ages ago (not dealing with failed rebuilds, not responding to review tickets, etc.) a couple of years ago but I have no experience with his more recent activities.
j-rodand he was quite reasonable with some bacula stuff I worked w/him on
so +1 from me too
bpeppleok, I see five '+1' to ixs's request, so it's been approved.
j-rodplenty knowledgeable and careful wrt upgrading the bacula bits in a way that didn't destroy people's working setups and whatnot
nottingdelayed +1 from me
bpeppleanything else folks want to add in regard to ixs?  otherwise we can move on.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- adjusting post-beta snapshots - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg01994.html - all
Kick_+1
bpepple+1
+1 from nirik on the mailing list.
dwmw2whatever releng want
+1
j-rod"nod of approval"
notting+1
bpeppleok, I see six '+1', and no objections, so we've approved the rel-eng request.
moving on......
* jwb ishere
jwb+1
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- Features - Sbin Sanity - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00337.html - ville
bpeppleok, Ville wanted us to discuss reverting this feature.
dwmw2What was the 'better way' and why do we need it?
is the only real objection just the 'tab completion finds more stuff' ?
* j-rod happy with the way things are now, always used to manually make things that way anyhow
bpeppledwmw2: correct.
dwmw2I find that objection a little spurious
jwb?
dwmw2I've _always_ had to add /sbin to my path manually and it's been a pain in the arse. I'm all for the existing change.
j-rodlikewise. let it be.
dwmw2jwb: apparently fir<TAB> no longer gives you firefox if you add /sbin ot the path
this makes kittens die
jwbi was confused by your choice of 'spurious' as a description, but whatever :)
dwmw2yeah. My grasp of the language is poor at times
bpepplefyi, in case anyone hasn't checked their e-mail in the last half-hour, ville had this comment in regard to nirik's comment: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg02180.html
dwmw2yeah, he does have a point, kind of, about being hard to revert. Although not a great one.
but are we really going to come up with a better answer?
bpeppledwmw2: ville did say that Matt Miller and him were working on doing it the 'correct' way.
dwmw2I saw in a package review last week that someone was trying to put nothing in /usr/bin, and use bash 'module' stuff instead. I'd never seen that before... and maybe it can handle sbin too?
jwbwhat is the 'correct' way?
dwmw2bpepple: he did, but I don't.... indeed, jwb.
* dgilmore is kinda here. in other meeting also
Kick_jwb:  fix sudo to include sbin, p.e.
dwmw2that's 2/3 of bugger all use.
we want it for non-root users too
-1 to the proposal to revert SbinSanity.
j-rod-1 for revert
bpepple-1 to revert from nirik on the mailing list.
Kick_+1 from me as I still don't want to have sbin in my normal users path
j-rodI like 'ip a s' to Just Work
jwb0
i don't care either way and i think it's making a mountain out of a molehill
bpepple-1 to revert.
notting, dgilmore: ?
notting-1 to revert
jwb5
dgilmore-1 to revert
dwmw2If they want to come to us _quickly_ (i.e. next week) with a concrete, ready-to-ship alternative, then we can consider it. Although I don't hold out much hope for such an alternative
bpeppleI see six '-1', one '-1', and one '0' to reverting the sbin sanity feature.
dwmw2since I think the objection is to the principle, not the implementation.
Kick_one +1
bpeppleKick_: correct, typo on my part.
dgilmoreif there was a concrete workable alternative  then i think we can consider it
bpeppleanyone have anything else to add? Or should we move on?
dwmw2doing it in interactive shells but not non-interactive might address the concern about scripts. But is probably worse than the original problem it tries to fix
bpeppleok, moving on.....
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- Features - all
bpepplepoelcat: did the art team pull the echo icon feature?
jwbmizmo said it was not ready
bpepplejwb: I thought I saw something about it, but wasn't 100% sure.
poelcatbpepple: i haven't heard/seen anything about the page
nottingit was reverted as the default icon set in fedora-icon-theme yesterday/today
poelcatthough i'm behind on email
bpepplenotting: ok, thanks.
bpepplepoelcat: anything else in regard to features we need to discuss today? I know next week is a deadline for a couple of features.
poelcatbpepple: i'd like to get started on F11 feature process review as time permits
poelcati'll send out mail
bpepplepoelcat: sounds good to me.
ok, if there is nothing else we can move on.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- comps - j-rod, nirik
bpepplej-rod: any progress on the comps guidelines?
j-rodI suck, two weeks in a row
* jds2001 wanders in late
bpepplej-rod: no worries, just wanted to touch base with you.
* bpepple remembers that jds2001 was going to work on it, not nirik.
bpeppleanyway, that's all I had on the schedule for today.
--- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora
jds2001yeah, I suck too, and the topic just came up yesterday
dwmw2I suck, because I didn't review a package yet this week
jds2001which reminded me of it being on my pile o' doom
dwmw2and I can't even find the damn list to pick from, either :)
wwoodssince we're on the subject of comps guidelines - I committed a relax-ng schema for comps a while back
bpeppledwmw2: I didn't either, though I did manage to schedule a meeting for the package review sig.
* Kick_ got one of his own packages reviewed, does that count ?
dwmw2should we put review bugs into NEEDINFO when we're waiting for the packager to fix something?
wwoodsit'd make me very happy if comps changes were validated before checkin
jds2001dwmw2: yeah, sounds sane
bpepplewwoods: yeah, that would be nice.
nottingwwoods: ugh, effort on the cvs side
* dwmw2 does that to the first three reviews bugs he looked at with a view to helping with :)
dwmw2what's the search we use for review bugs which need input?
wwoodsyeah, cvs effort = boo
which is why I'm merely making the suggestion rather than demanding it (and thus volunteering to write the cvs bits)
nottingopen bugs for component "Package Review"?
ubertibbshttp://fedoraproject.org/PackageReviewStatus/NEW.html
dwmw2ta
* bpepple sees ubertibbs beat him to the link.
* dwmw2 was looking for review keyword or flag or something
dwmw2├╝bertibbs, please.
even though IRC can't handle it :)
* jds2001 demands UTF-8 IRC :)
Kick_looks ok here
dwmw2er, do @redhat.com folks need sponsorship?
jwbircd doesn't allow UTF-8 in nicks
dwmw2, yes
bpeppledwmw2: yeah.
Kick_oh
ubertibbsEveryone needs sponsorship.
ubertibbsI wouldn't generally put review tickets into needinfo immediately.
At least now that its a flag, though, it won't make the tickets drop out of many searches so it shouldn't hurt anything.
bpeppleanyone have anything else they wish to discuss, otherwise we can wrap up for this week.
Kick_bpepple:  there were two issues at yesterdays FPC meeting which seem to need FESCo ratification according to the meeting summary
* dwmw2 refines search.... component=Package Review and description does not contain 'Merge Review' and needinfo flag not set and fedora-review flag not set either
Kick_but we can do that next week
bpeppleKick_: do you have a link?
Kick_bpepple:  only the mail on f-devel 'Summary of the 2008-10-21 Packaging'
ubertibbsHonestly those two guideline tweaks were probably in the "just do small things that make sense" category.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Minutes/20081021
Tweaks for eclipse plugins to accommodate changes in Eclipse 3.4 and a the removal of some confusing language in the desktop file guidelines
bpeppleubertibbs: thanks.  I thought we had changed that vendor thing awhile back.
ubertibbswhich made folks think that --fendor=fedora was required in many cases.
Yeah, we should have but things got held up while mclasen figures out what breaks when we remove it.
bpeppleubertibbs: ah, thanks.
ubertibbsspot just wrote around that delay by specifying that existing packages shouldn't change.
bpeppleanyone have any objections to the guideline changes proposed by FPC?
Kick_no, looks sane
jds2001+1 here
bpeppleubertibbs: I don't see any objections so consider them approved.
notting+1
bpeppleok, if there is nothing else, I'll start the meeting end countdown.
* bpepple will end the meeting in 60
bpepple will end the meeting in 30
bpepple will end the meeting in 15
bpepple-- MARK -- Meeting End
Thanks, everyone!

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