| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process | ||
| * jds2001 | ||
| cmpahar afk, back in 20' | ||
| bpepple | FESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, dgilmore, dwmw2, jwb, notting, nirik, kick_, jds2001, j-rod | |
|---|---|---|
| Hi everybody; who's around? | ||
| * notting is here | ||
| Kick_ is here | ||
| j-rod just got here too | ||
| dwmw2_YOW here | ||
| dwmw2_YOW | in body if not in mind | |
| * bpepple waits another minute or so to see who else shows up. | ||
| * jds2001 around | ||
| bpepple | ok, let's get started... | |
| First off, welcome to the new members. | ||
| any questions before we start? | ||
| dwmw2_YOW | did the election results get announced? | |
| jds2001 | i saw it on fedora-announce and planet | |
| bpepple | dwmw2_YOW: yeah, I sent an announcement to the announce-list and the planet. | |
| * nirik is back now | ||
| bpepple | dwmw2_YOW: http://bpepple.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/fesco-election-results-2/ | |
| dwmw2_YOW | ok. The election page, as of last night, was refusing to show the results until they'd been ratified (or something) | |
| * f13 is here now | ||
| bpepple | yeah, I don't think G has opened that up yet. | |
| j-rod | yeah, 'embargoed pending announcement' is what they were telling me last I looked, then I found the stuff in bpepple's blog | |
| j-rod | s'pose the embargo can be lifted now... :) | |
| bpepple | j-rod: yeah, I'll check with G about lifting it. | |
| ok, let's get started... | ||
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- Decide time for FESCo meetings -- all | ||
| bpepple | ok, jds2001 set-up a matrix of times. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jstanley/FESCo_Scheduler | |
| Based on that it looks like wed. at 18:00 UTC seems to be the best time. | ||
| j-rod | um... is it just me, or are the utc to edt conversions off... ? | |
| jds2001 | EDT is UTC-4 | |
| Kick_ | bad for me, I had to drop Wed,1800 from the list again | |
| drago01 | use date | |
| nirik | jds2001: right now... but not when no DST | |
| j-rod | oh, crap, nm | |
| I can't do simple math | ||
| bpepple | Kick_: ok, let's see what other times work. | |
| * j-rod somehow subtracted 6 from 1800 to get 2pm EDT | ||
| j-rod | I'm game for anything but Tuesday/Thursday from noon to 3 | |
| er, 1600 to 1900 | ||
| * nirik is pretty flexable. whatever works. | ||
| Kick_ | bpepple: I can attend Wed 1800 sometimes, but not always. After September this time is ok with me, too | |
| jds2001 | i've got somewhat unpredictable physical therapy schedules in the short term :/ | |
| * bpepple is fairly flexible on times also. | ||
| * jds2001 too | ||
| nirik | is this time bad for anyone? we could just leave it here? | |
| j-rod | not so good for me | |
| bpepple | One thing to note is that there is a meeting already scheduled at Wed. 19:00, so we are limited to an hour. | |
| jds2001 | we also have to work around the schedule of this channel :/ | |
| nirik | Kick_: would earlier wed work better for you? 17? | |
| dwmw2_YOW | works for me. As does Wednesday | |
| Kick_ | nirik: unfortunately not, I need to leave 17:00 CEST, thats 15:00 UTC | |
| bpepple | ok, so what time should we use? | |
| Kick_ | how about Tuesday, 1700 ? | |
| * bpepple works for me. | ||
| bpepple | though the KDE sig has a meeting at that time. | |
| jds2001 | worksforme | |
| d'oh! | ||
| j-rod | tues/thus 1600-1900 sucks for me | |
| bpepple | s/KDE/packaging committe/ | |
| nirik | monday 17:00? | |
| notting | Kick_: board meets at 1800 on Tuesday, but it's somewhat reasonable | |
| nirik: releng meets then | ||
| f13: although i suppose we could move that | ||
| (maybe) | ||
| f13 | releng could move an hour later | |
| dwmw2_YOW | I can't do Monday 17:00 | |
| or for a while either side of that. | ||
| * stickster wonders what the point of a schedule page was. | ||
| bpepple | maybe we need to use another channel for meetings (#meeting2 or some-such thing.) | |
| dwmw2_YOW | OFTC :) | |
| nirik | anything else in the schedule page that looks good? | |
| bpepple | mon at 16:00 is open. | |
| dwmw2_YOW | not for me, I'm afraid | |
| Kick_ | lets use Wed: 1800 and I try to attend as often as possible | |
| * Kick_ can't do monday after 1500 at all | ||
| bpepple | Kick_: wed at 18:00 works for me, | |
| that work for everyone else? | ||
| jds2001 | Wed 1800 sounds good | |
| notting | wfm | |
| * nirik is fine with that | ||
| bpepple | ok, so we'll meet at wednesday at 18:00. | |
| bpepple | moving on........ | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- Elect new chair -- all | ||
| nirik | I think bpepple has been doing fine, but if he wants someone else to take over thats fine too. | |
| bpepple | Alright, does anyone wish to be the chair for the new FESCo. | |
| * jds2001 votes for bpepple | ||
| bpepple | I'm fine with doing the admin stuff, but I wouldn't mind having someone else help out running the meetings. | |
| Kick_ | bpepple +1 | |
| j-rod | keep on keepin' on, bpepple +1 | |
| notting | bpepple +1 | |
| bpepple | ok, so it sounds like no one else wants to be chair. I'm fine with doing again, but if anyone wants to step in sometime just holler. | |
| if there's nothing else we can probably move on. | ||
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting -- sponsor nominations -- Jon Ciesla (limb) -- all | ||
| nirik | +1 from me. | |
| bpepple | ok, limb asked to be made a sponsor last week, and he got quite a few '+1' on the mailing list. | |
| +1 from me. | ||
| dwmw2_YOW | +1 | |
| jds2001 | +1 | |
| * Kick_ had a look at some of his reviews and packages, looked ok to me. +1 | ||
| dwmw2_YOW | +1 for bpepple too, btw | |
| j-rod | +1 | |
| f13 | +1 for bpepple although I don't think I have voting powers anymore | |
| bpepple | f13: your opinion still counts here. ;) | |
| notting | +1 | |
| j-rod | hey, there's a jwb | |
| bpepple | ok, I see seven '+1' for limb, so we've approved his request. | |
| I'll upgrade him after the meeting. | ||
| moving on to features now..... | ||
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GlitchFreeAudio | ||
| bpepple | poelcat: you about? | |
| bpepple | looks like poelcat isn't here. | |
| bpepple | ok, well anyway the first feature up for us to review is the Glitch free audio for PA. | |
| f13 | poelcat is at OSCON | |
| bpepple | f13: ah, that makes sense. | |
| nirik | +1 from me. Seems like a good thing to tout... | |
| notting | +1 | |
| jds2001 | +1, though I' | |
| Kick_ | from the description I'd say GlitchFreeAudio is a prereq for the next topic LatencyPolicy +1 | |
| bpepple | +1 from me also. does anyone know the status of the alsa work needed. | |
| j-rod | +1 here | |
| jds2001 | I'd like to see an expected savings in powertop for various chipsets | |
| drago01 | bpepple: he submitted patches upstream and there are in our alsa packages now ... (but new issues might still show up) | |
| bpepple | drago01: cool, thanks for the update. | |
| ok, I see six '+1' for this feature, so we've approved it. | ||
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/LatencyPolicy | ||
| mclasen_ | I'm working with lennart to add some kind of opt-out option for the glitch-free stuff | |
| since some drivers will have issues... | ||
| jds2001 | -1, the test plan need a lot of work | |
| notting | -1 *for now*. upstream kernel raised quite a few questions | |
| * jds2001 would have no idea what policies are available nor the desired effect for each one | ||
| nirik | there was also some discussion about it overlaping with other things on the devel list. | |
| j-rod | also stomps on some existing tools, no plans made for integration/obsoletes/whatever | |
| yep, it overlaps with cpuspeed | ||
| nirik | -1 for now here too... | |
| * nirik would love to see the issues solved and this resubmitted. | ||
| j-rod | but lacks a lot of the (dare I call it) logic the cpuspeed init script has for automagically setting stuff up | |
| * jds2001 too | ||
| j-rod | so yeah, -1 for now from me too, but once some stompage has been ironed out, sure | |
| bpepple | -1 for now, until some of the issues brought up here have been addressed. | |
| Kick_ | -1 until better integrated in existing stuff | |
| bpepple | ok, I see five '-1' for this. Would FESCo members please add their questions to the discussion page of this feature, so the feature owner can address them? | |
| bpepple | Does anyone have anything else to add about his feature, or should we move on? | |
| nirik | moveon++ | |
| bpepple | nirik: done. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NodokaNotificationTheme | ||
| * jwb_OLS finally shows up | ||
| bpepple | jwb_OLS: welcome. | |
| jwb_OLS | i fail. sorry | |
| * jds2001 docks jwb_OLS's pay | ||
| bpepple | jwb_OLS: no worries | |
| jds2001 | :) | |
| bpepple | ok, regarding this feature request, I'm not 100% sold that it should be a feature. | |
| * nirik notes there is no mention of updating the Xfce nodoka theme, but I expect that wouldn't be too hard. | ||
| jds2001 | why not? It's a visible change to the user experience. | |
| * jds2001 assumes that this will be default, no? | ||
| jds2001 | (even though it's not now) | |
| bpepple | jds2001: It seems like a fairly minor upgrade to the theme IMO. | |
| jwb_OLS | it's an incremental improvemennt | |
| notting | well, we don't normally relnote or tout the artwork... it just 'is' | |
| * f13 watches jwb try to type on is mid | ||
| j-rod | rounded corners and shading hardly seems to be a "feature" that really needs people voting on it, imo | |
| bpepple | j-rod: right. If the majority of the theme was being changed, I could see this being a feature, but it only seems to address the notification bubble. | |
| jwb_OLS | it's cool but, meh | |
| * j-rod says "not a feature, just do it" | ||
| wwoods | nobody has to change their workflows, there's no need for integration or coordination with other projects/maintainers | |
| bpepple | j-rod: +1 | |
| nirik | j-rod: +1 | |
| wwoods | work with the art team, make it part of the F10 theming efforts.. sure | |
| notting | j-rod: +1 | |
| Kick_ | -1 from me, looks more like normal development/artwork stuff to me, not a real feature. +1 to 'just do it' | |
| bpepple | ok, I see five votes for not having this be a feature, and to 'just do it'. | |
| * stickster notes that poelcat can take this as a sign we should slightly refine the feature definition | ||
| jds2001 | j-rod: +1 | |
| bpepple | does anyone have anything else they wish to add before moving on? | |
| jds2001 | stickster: i just got to thinking about release interviews. | |
| stickster: it would be kinda odd for you to say "we have rounded bubbles now" :) | ||
| stickster | jds2001: ;-) | |
| bpepple | ok, moving on....... | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OpenChange | ||
| nirik | testing might be hard/impossible | |
| notting | +1, although sounds like it may not actaully make it | |
| * nirik has no exchange servers anywhere here. | ||
| jds2001 | this is pending evolution relicensing? | |
| * j-rod wonders if stickster has a funky trans-am with the dual exhaust | ||
| jds2001 is sad to admit that $DAYJOB uses Exchnage | ||
| bpepple | +1 to OpenChange feature. | |
| j-rod | +1 for openchange, if its ready in time | |
| notting | jds2001: is that a volunteer i see? | |
| nirik | +1 here too... not a bad impact if it doesn't make it. | |
| jds2001 | notting: sure :) | |
| +1 | ||
| Kick_ | +1 | |
| wwoods | "pull in alpha builds of samba4" - boy that makes me nervous. stil. if abartlet thinks that's reasonable.. | |
| dwmw2_YOW | +1 | |
| mclasen_ | jds2001: I think OpenChange makes sense even without the evo part, but of course, getting something better than the current evo connector is a big motivation for this... | |
| jwb_YOW | is evo connector going away if this gets in? | |
| bpepple | jwb_YOW: I don't think so. | |
| jwb_YOW | k | |
| bpepple | ok, I see seven '+1' to this feature, so we've approved it. | |
| wwoods | oh duh, I'm reading this wrong. samba4 is packaged separately. no reason to be nervous. | |
| notting | actually, what's the approval # now? 5 or 6? | |
| jwb_YOW | 5? | |
| bpepple | notting: 5. | |
| any other questions about the open change feature? If not, we can move on. | ||
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SecurityAudit | ||
| notting | +1 | |
| bpepple | This feature was pushed back from F9 wasn't it? | |
| * jhrozek ready to answer questions about this feature | ||
| notting | yes | |
| nirik | yeah, it was. | |
| * nirik hasn't looked too hard at it of late... it was very new in f9 | ||
| Kick_ | this looks like just another intrusion detection system to me, is this really a Feature ? | |
| wwoods | well, it's a framework for other security tests too - anyone can add their own tests | |
| so, if I understand right, package owners can add additional security tests to be shipped with their packages | ||
| jhrozek | wwoods: exactly. | |
| nirik | but then their packages require sectool? | |
| jds2001 | well %package-sectool would | |
| at least that's how i'd personally handle it. | ||
| wwoods | so, yeah. it's not just an IDS app, it's a systemwide framework for security testing | |
| jds2001: yeah something like that would be more reasonable, for packagers that want to add tests | ||
| jhrozek | sectool has a built-in mechanism that skips a test if it requires a package that's not installed (we have an openvpn test, for example). Or you can have the test packaged separately as jds2001 says. | |
| * nirik thinks it would be better to add tests to sectool and they can do nothing if the package/thing isn't installed. | ||
| cmpahar back | ||
| nirik | jhrozek: is sectool submitted/shipped in any other distros? or only fedora? | |
| bpepple | Note for new members in case you haven't seen this. Here's what we defined features as: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy/Definitions | |
| jhrozek | nirik: only fedora so far. AFAIK we're all Fedora users. But there's nothing that stops you from doing that. | |
| bpepple | +1 to this feature. | |
| jds2001 | +1 | |
| nirik | jhrozek: ok, just wondering. | |
| jhrozek: is sectool planned to be installed by default or included on the install media? | ||
| jhrozek | nirik: I have no idea. | |
| jwb_YOW | do you think it should be? | |
| jhrozek | Yes, but then again, I'm biased :-) | |
| jwb_YOW | ok, that's a tangent from the Feature itself i guess | |
| +1 from me | ||
| bpepple | ok, I see four '+1' on this, does anyone else want to weigh-in on this feature? | |
| Kick_ | +1 as it seems to be somewhat different to aide/snort/tripwire with the test framework | |
| jwb_YOW | j-rod, ? | |
| nirik | +1 here. If we are touting it, we might want to consider at least adding it to the media | |
| j-rod | I have no reason to object to it, so I guess that qualifies as a +1 | |
| bpepple | alright, that puts us at seven '+1' to this feature, so we've approved it. | |
| ok, we at the hour point, does anyone have to leave? Or should we try to cover the remaining two features on the schedule? | ||
| jwb_YOW | i can wait | |
| * nirik can hang around. | ||
| jds2001 can hang around | ||
| bpepple | ok, let's finish up the last two features then. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance --https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/BetterLIRCSupport | ||
| jds2001 | needs a better test plan | |
| f13 | oooh man I love what this feature is trying to do | |
| * jds2001 cant go to the store and tell them that I want a "supported remote" without them giving me a blank stare. | ||
| bpepple | f13: agreed. hadess is doing some cool stuff. | |
| * jds2001 thinks this is ultra-cool, though | ||
| jwb_YOW | jds2001, what do you need added to make it better? | |
| notting | +1 | |
| mclasen_ | jds2001: theres a link to a list of supported remotes somewhere on the page | |
| jwb_YOW | yeah, in the status section | |
| bpepple | +1 here also. | |
| jwb_YOW | i'm a +1 | |
| notting | i'd be curious what's involved with porting other apps to use the new stuff | |
| jds2001 | a list of supported remotes, and what i should be able to do with them. | |
| drago01 | http://lirc.sourceforge.net/remotes/ | |
| nirik | +1 here | |
| j-rod | +1, I've actually been doing some of the infra work on this, since I'm co-maint. on the lirc userspace and maintain our lirc kernel patches... :) | |
| jds2001 | +1 from me, then | |
| bpepple | ok, I see six '+1', and no '-1', so we've approved this feature. | |
| mclasen_ | notting: I can ask hadess to explain a) what apps are currently 'supported' and b) whats involved with adding support | |
| jwb_YOW | mclasen_, that would be nice | |
| bpepple | mclasen_: that would great. thanks. | |
| notting | mclasen_: what's there now implies it's rhythmbox & totem. would be interesting if it extends to 'any app that supports media keys' | |
| * j-rod wonders... can mythtv be included in the test criteria?... :) | ||
| jwb_YOW | ha | |
| bpepple | ok, is there anything else? Or should we move on? | |
| jwb_YOW | move on | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo-Meeting Feature Acceptance --https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Artistic1Removal | ||
| jds2001 | this is more of a non-feature :) | |
| jwb_YOW | wtf? | |
| jds2001 | we are removing things. | |
| bpepple | jds2001: yeah, but it might be worth promoting since it will be a visible change for our users. | |
| nirik | I'm ok with it being a feature for media/pr purposes. | |
| jds2001 | yep | |
| jwb_YOW | we remove orphans too... we don't do Feature stuff for that... | |
| nirik | "fedora means freedom" | |
| * stickster thinks some of this is actually fixing (w/ upstream) and not removing -- see #2 and #4 in definition. | ||
| drago01 | (bpepple: please add a space before the http to let xchat regognice the urls as such ;) ) | |
| f13 | I think this was done as a feature due to coordinating with a lot of packages | |
| and that it is something significant that Fedora is doing to clean up the licensing world | ||
| we've done /far/ more work in this space int he last few releases than Debian ever has | ||
| notting | +1 to doing this. dunno how much it needs touted | |
| bpepple | drago01: yeah, I mention it to poelcat for next week. | |
| f13 | especially when you combine it with things like the zimbra relicense | |
| drago01 | bpepple: ok, thx | |
| nirik | +1 here | |
| jwb_YOW | i have no problems doing it. just scratching my head as to whether it's a Feature. but +1 | |
| jds2001 | +1 here | |
| jwb_YOW: significant PR value | ||
| jwb_YOW | or backlash | |
| :) | ||
| j-rod | hrm, some of those are going to hurt a bit | |
| * j-rod has to use conmux, which this'll bust | ||
| jds2001 eyed perl-Authen-Radius in particular | ||
| Kick_ | +1 from me | |
| bpepple | +1 | |
| j-rod | but such is life. +1 | |
| f13 | j-rod: convince upstream to relicense (: | |
| bpepple | ok, that's seven '+1', so we've approved this feature also. | |
| j-rod | f13: I'll pawn that off on bpeck, he's the conmux maintainer, iirc. :) | |
| bpepple | ok, that's it for feature this week. | |
| --- bpepple has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora | ||
| j-rod | (its used extensively by rhts) | |
| jwb_YOW | did we elect a chair in my absence? | |
| f13 | jwb_YOW: bpepple | |
| jwb_YOW | oh good | |
| f13 | er wait | |
| jwb_YOW: we elected you | ||
| jwb_YOW | argh | |
| f13 | (and by we, I mean the people actually in FESCo) | |
| bpepple | yeah, they elected me again, but if you want to run the meeting I'm more than willing to let you. ;) | |
| * j-rod was gonna try to pull that off before f13 ruined it and said bpepple already... :) | ||
| jwb_YOW | bpepple, i don't care. you do a fine job | |
| f13 | j-rod: I'm running a bit ragged today, can't make the good jokes fast. | |
| bpepple | ok, is there anything else folks want to discuss before wrapping up the meeting. | |
| j-rod | f13: I have no idea why that might be... :D | |
| * nirik would like to voice support for broken EVR reports f13 has been doing./ | ||
| bpepple | nirik: agreed. | |
| jwb_YOW | f13, which script are you using? | |
| nirik | I would like to see those run and nag regularly. | |
| f13 | nirik: thanks. I'm ashamed that I haven't done this earlier. | |
| jds2001 | mether mentioned the collective maintainer policy on the list | |
| let's throw that on the agenda for next week | ||
| f13 | jwb_YOW: the script scm url is at the bottom of th emessage | |
| jwb_YOW | we need to get back to 1 script | |
| f13 | Next feature for the script I think is mailing the contact list for the package, and skvidal is working on getting <package>-contact@fp.o aliases created | |
| bpepple | jds2001: do you know if that proposal was sent to the lists yet? I don't remember seeing it, but maybe I just missed it. | |
| skvidal | -owner, I think | |
| f13 | jwb_YOW: I made this script capable of taking arbitrary koji tags to compare | |
| skvidal | but yah - script is finished, I just need to make it autocreate regularl | |
| nirik | bpepple: it was a long time ago... | |
| jwb_YOW | f13, good. that was on my "never going to get done" todo list | |
| f13 | skvidal: does it catch all that have 'watch' set, or is it just owner and co-maintainers? | |
| skvidal | it's all of them | |
| bpepple | nirik: ok, probably why I don't remember it. I'll add it to the schedule for next week. | |
| f13 | in the happy future world, we'd run a similar test after every scm commit and drop the result on the bus | |
| which could mean notification to the maintainers/committer that they made a booboo | ||
| and then after a successful build/tag we could run tests such as upgrade/install and send results to the same peoples | ||
| * nirik would love to hook in a source check thing there too. ;) | ||
| f13 | my script really doesn't help the obsoletes/provides scenarios | |
| nirik: as would I | ||
| lots of things we could do... code+time (: | ||
| nirik | should be easy if we can do it async. | |
| f13 | right | |
| with the message bus concept we would be doing all of these things in async | ||
| bpepple | ok, if there is nothing else, I say we wrap up this week's meeting. | |
| * j-rod wishes these guys that just sat down next to him would stfu so he could think... | ||
| * bpepple will end the meeting in 60 | ||
| jwb_YOW | j-rod, sadly your seat is by the power cord | |
| j-rod | yah | |
| * bpepple will end the meeting in 30 | ||
| * jds2001 wfh because of my arm | ||
| jds2001 | never been more productive in my life :) | |
| j-rod | though my battery is fully charged now... | |
| * bpepple will end the meeting in 15 | ||
| jwb_YOW | dwmw2_YOW, where are you? | |
| * j-rod at OLS in the lobby-ish thing | ||
| j-rod | downstairs | |
| bpepple | -- MARK -- Meeting End | |
| dwmw2_YOW | in the hotel | |
| jwb_YOW | bah | |
| dwmw2_YOW | pondering breakfast | |
| bpepple | Thanks, everyone! | |
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